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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Teachers to tell children Gender Ideology is a contested belief"

187 replies

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 17:50

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/14/teachers-pupils-gender-ideology-trans-guidance/

Teachers will have to make clear that gender ideology is a “contested belief” rather than fact if they bring it up in lessons, Gillian Keegan will say later this week.
The Education Secretary is set to issue guidance on Thursday following criticism that some pupils were being taught that there were 72 genders.
Schools will not be told to hold lessons on gender ideologygy, which states that people can be born the wrong sex and that they can change their identity to the opposite sex or other categories such as non-binary.*
But if they do hold lessons on the issue, they must make it clear that it is a contested belief.
In other words, they must say that the “gender-critical” beliefef that there are just two biological sexes is also valid.*
The guidance - which will be out for consultation - will also order schools to show parents all classroom material to ensure they are comfortable with what is being taught.

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WarriorN · 15/05/2024 06:55

Leading story on radio 4; Emma Barnett did a short piece on it with the political affairs editor around 6:40.

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ResisterRex · 15/05/2024 06:33

Don’t teach children about changing gender, schools told

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c0c638c3-d100-4a4d-a573-c7dce2d6a8e3?shareToken=1d9807f1c07132b6289ba495d67ed351

WarriorN · 15/05/2024 06:06

Front page of app too

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WarriorN · 15/05/2024 06:06

BBC:

Plan to ban sex education for children under nine www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69013002

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CherrySocks · 14/05/2024 23:52

So will using the term 'TERF' be considered a hate crime from now on?

duc748 · 14/05/2024 23:45

Surely this is good news, because if they get it done, Starmer won't reverse it, will he?

WellitsAstarte · 14/05/2024 23:36

I’m thankful to hear this is going to happen. I teach RSHE and it’s been a worrying time having no guidance, or protection when covering LGBT topics. We’ve mainly focused on the lgb aspect to avoid having to teach something we don’t feel comfortable with - or believe ourselves.

ArabellaScott · 14/05/2024 22:49

'Some people like to dress like the opposite sex, and think they feel like members of the opposite sex.'

'Some people believe it's possible to change sex'.

'Some people believe we have something called 'gender identity'.

So long as you stick 'some people' in front of it, it's supposed to be enough.

Genderism hasn't had the Grainger test applied and hasn't been found WORIADS. 'Gender critical' beliefs have, however.

Anyway. It's a start.

AlertViper · 14/05/2024 22:12

Joyce says 'What Sex Matters wants to see is that schools are told in no uncertain terms to stop giving any credence to evidence-free claims that everyone has a gender identity, or that sex is a spectrum or can be changed.

“These claims are not just nonsense, they are regressive and sexist. They mislead and endanger children, and are a big reason why gender distress has become much more common in recent years.”

I agree, but with the reality based proviso that sex can be changed according to the GRA. Will the guidance in effect tell schools that the law of the land is based on a contested belief? How will that circle be squared?

ResisterRex · 14/05/2024 21:59

HipTightOnions · 14/05/2024 21:05

... aaaand what's happening with KSCIE?

KCSIE for 2024 will undergo "technical changes only".

Consultation/call for evidence for Sept 2025 is here:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/safeguarding-strategy-systemic-improvement-team/safeguarding-children-in-schools-and-colleges/

👀

Thank you. Think that needs its own thread to be bumped along the 12 weeks of the consultation

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 21:35

Attempted a post about that particular paragraph (phone died) but yes that needs to be raised, a lot.

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Xiaoxiong · 14/05/2024 21:20

Oh interesting @HipTightOnions - I will write in about para 203 which Stonewall lobbied for insertion. This para is what our school used to write their policy saying parents don't need to be informed if a child makes a disclosure to a teacher that they are trans (with implication of school supporting social transition at school). Fine for a child who is LGB but Para 203 teams being gay, lesbian and bisexual with being trans and after the Cass Report we know that is no longer appropriate: a child should never be socially transitioned at school unless with clinical advice. Social transition is not a neutral act and there is a risk of a school to clinic pipeline.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 14/05/2024 21:11

Exactly, not a fact but a belief.
Homosexuality is a fact. Please let's not allow LGB to be confused with TQI+..... 1 is a scientific occurrence 1 is a belief. Children (especially those realising they may be gay) need to know the difference.

HipTightOnions · 14/05/2024 21:05

... aaaand what's happening with KSCIE?

KCSIE for 2024 will undergo "technical changes only".

Consultation/call for evidence for Sept 2025 is here:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/safeguarding-strategy-systemic-improvement-team/safeguarding-children-in-schools-and-colleges/

FlakyPoet · 14/05/2024 20:24

.

Xiaoxiong · 14/05/2024 19:09

Fantastic news. Have just sent this to our head.

Hopefully this will become statutory as previously he said that the guidance from December was only a draft. They need to really get a move on if these things are to be finalised before the end of the school year to allow schools to update their guidance and PSHE curricula before September.

duc748 · 14/05/2024 18:26

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/05/2024 18:03

"In other words, they must say that the "gender-critical "belief that there are just two biological sexes is also valid."*

It's not a belief - it's a bloody fact. Biology, science, factual, evidenced. Only women give birth since forever.
There comes a time when we need to stop pandering to those pushing this delusion at children - that sex change is possible. 😡

But this is progress

Edited

So we have the poorly-worded Equality Act to thank for GC views being characterised as 'beliefs' (which of course, they aren't), thus enabling gender enthusiasts to portray the situation as two opposing 'beliefs', more like Protestantism and Catholicism?

Give 'em an inch.... words matter.

Ginnyweasleyswand · 14/05/2024 18:21

ResisterRex · 14/05/2024 18:19

...aaaand what's happening with KSCIE?

Will this be mere "guidance"? Will unions vote not to follow it?

Etc.

Yes, this. It could quite easily be put in as an amendment to KCSIE - that will be amended by Sept as it is every year.

The amendments won't have to be that great as (and I'm paraphrasing here) expecting children to cope with concept that are beyond their developmental ability is already listed as emotional abuse.

Just add in that you can't lie that contested beliefs are fact. And parents get to see RSE resources. Done.

All this fucking around. Keegan is useless.

ResisterRex · 14/05/2024 18:20

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:18

I've always struggled with the forstater judgement used in contexts such as these.

Child safeguarding is not a belief.

Star
ResisterRex · 14/05/2024 18:19

...aaaand what's happening with KSCIE?

Will this be mere "guidance"? Will unions vote not to follow it?

Etc.

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:18

I've always struggled with the forstater judgement used in contexts such as these.

Child safeguarding is not a belief.

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ScrollingLeaves · 14/05/2024 18:13

“But if they do hold lessons on the issue, they must make it clear that it is a contested belief.
In other words, they must say that the“gender-critical” beliefef that there are just two biological sexes is also valid.”

In other words………. that is too sotto voce.

Who will hear those other words?

Just saying that’sgender identity it is a contested belief is not the same as saying that….

to believe there are just two sexes,

no one is born in the wrong body,

gender as in stereotypical masculine or feminine presentation or activities is a simply a social matter,

and

there is no proof humans have an inborn ‘gender identity’ as such

……..is a belief protected in law.

Schools told to presume children can’t change their gender

Long-awaited trans guidance for teachers says they do not have to use preferred pronouns of pupils who want to socially transition

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/18/schools-told-presume-children-cannot-change-gender-trans/

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:09

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/05/2024 18:03

"In other words, they must say that the "gender-critical "belief that there are just two biological sexes is also valid."*

It's not a belief - it's a bloody fact. Biology, science, factual, evidenced. Only women give birth since forever.
There comes a time when we need to stop pandering to those pushing this delusion at children - that sex change is possible. 😡

But this is progress

Edited

Yes.

Gawd, some poor teaching sods are going to need the argument spelt out for them. So many "believe."

But at least their pupils can now give damn good reasoning as to why it's bs.

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