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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Teachers to tell children Gender Ideology is a contested belief"

187 replies

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 17:50

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/14/teachers-pupils-gender-ideology-trans-guidance/

Teachers will have to make clear that gender ideology is a “contested belief” rather than fact if they bring it up in lessons, Gillian Keegan will say later this week.
The Education Secretary is set to issue guidance on Thursday following criticism that some pupils were being taught that there were 72 genders.
Schools will not be told to hold lessons on gender ideologygy, which states that people can be born the wrong sex and that they can change their identity to the opposite sex or other categories such as non-binary.*
But if they do hold lessons on the issue, they must make it clear that it is a contested belief.
In other words, they must say that the “gender-critical” beliefef that there are just two biological sexes is also valid.*
The guidance - which will be out for consultation - will also order schools to show parents all classroom material to ensure they are comfortable with what is being taught.

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ResisterRex · 15/05/2024 09:27

EasternStandard · 15/05/2024 09:17

Times radio had callers talking about gender ideology being used in schools

R4 try pretty hard not to hear that view from anyone in the small part I heard

Haven't listened to The Times Radio but listened to a fair of R4, so I agree with this point about R4.

They had ONE text read out towards the end that I heard, although there could have been more from 8:45(?) or so onwards

EasternStandard · 15/05/2024 09:17

Times radio had callers talking about gender ideology being used in schools

R4 try pretty hard not to hear that view from anyone in the small part I heard

nauticant · 15/05/2024 09:07

Gender ideology is a Vatican coined phrase formed to push back against LGBTQ rights across the board.

Are you sure about that? Here's an academic article from 1984 which I'm hightly sceptical has anything to do with the Vatican:

https://newleftreview.org/issues/i144/articles/johanna-brenner-maria-ramas-rethinking-women-s-oppression

Hatfullofwillow · 15/05/2024 08:53

AReasonablePerson · 14/05/2024 17:59

What this also makes clear is the argument that this is "just like the days of section 28" holds absolutely no water at all. In those days homosexuality was not allowed to be promoted (talked about) in schools.

This is clear - they can teach there is such a thing as genderism, but they also have to teach that there is such a thing as non-genderism. It is the some people think this and some people think that approach. It is better.

It doesn't make it clear if it's actually using gender ideology as the contested belief rather than gender critical. Gender ideology is a Vatican coined phrase formed to push back against LGBTQ rights across the board. I'd be worried by the former, in terms of direction of travel, but not so much by the latter.

LizzieSiddal · 15/05/2024 08:51

X posted with you @ResisterRex And that tweet shows exactly what the BBC have been up to this morning. Angry

LizzieSiddal · 15/05/2024 08:49

On R4 Emma just read out a comment by a woman who said her child had come home from school with very confused comments about gender. She asked to see the information at school and was dismayed at its content. She said she was very happy to hear about this new guidance.

Im glad Emma has read that out because the whole show seems to be “nothing to see here, it’s all politics”.

Madcats · 15/05/2024 08:45

This has featured heavily on R4 Today this morning (I've been listening since 5:30, so caught the news bulletin as well)

Admittedly I usually have the news on as background noise, so don't pay a huge amount of attention, but it feels a bit like Womens' Hour.

Amol Rajan has upped his game.

HipTightOnions · 15/05/2024 08:43

Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way.

Oh yes. And what "the facts" and "the law" are regarding gender identity seem to be up to individual teachers to decide.

(See also "age-appropriate" and "inclusive".)

WarriorN · 15/05/2024 08:41

Just want to hurriedly note that in my area NO was bought for schools 6 years ago by the local council. They didn't have much choice - however i suspect they've continued it under their own steam

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nauticant · 15/05/2024 08:38

While that's true, if you put that in front of one of the denialists they'll then shift the goalposts to say "but I was talking about gender identity ideology because that's not really a thing. Gender identity is a thing, because we all have one."

Thingybob · 15/05/2024 08:34

there's no evidence that teaching is taking place in schools according to gender identity ideology

And yet the current mandatory guidance says it has to be taught

Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way. All pupils should feel that the content is relevant to them and their developing sexuality. Sexual orientation and gender identity should be explored at a timely point and in a clear, sensitive and respectful manner

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education

Relationships and sex education (RSE) and health education

Statutory guidance on relationships education, relationships and sex education (RSE) and health education.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education

nauticant · 15/05/2024 08:31

It looks like this was the female teacher cheerleading No Outsiders:

Rebecca Leek, who is also interim headteacher at a primary school north of Ipswich, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that sex education typically isn't taught in primary schools until Year 6, and "parents already have a right to withdraw" their child if they wish.

HipTightOnions · 15/05/2024 08:23

It's so infuriating.

there's no evidence that teaching is taking place in schools according to gender identity ideology

My head would also say this but it's not true, and he knows it.

nauticant · 15/05/2024 08:13

nauticant · 15/05/2024 08:06

The overall message I'm picking up is that there's no evidence that teaching is taking place in schools according to gender identity ideology.

They had two teachers on Radio 4. One said it was all a nothing and in any case kids were getting the appropriate teaching from resources like No Outsiders. The other, Pepe d'Atheo (sp?), said that it's all about backbenchers and kids are being used as political footballs.

Correction, Pepe Di'Iasio:

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1790635186113126438

EasternStandard · 15/05/2024 08:08

nauticant · 15/05/2024 08:06

The overall message I'm picking up is that there's no evidence that teaching is taking place in schools according to gender identity ideology.

They had two teachers on Radio 4. One said it was all a nothing and in any case kids were getting the appropriate teaching from resources like No Outsiders. The other, Pepe d'Atheo (sp?), said that it's all about backbenchers and kids are being used as political footballs.

Of course but isn’t that BBC nothing to see here top line agenda

It’s all those pesky women and culture wars, that’s their editorial line

Username65 · 15/05/2024 08:07

On GMB now. Let’s see if Ed Balls can discuss with less bias than he showed when interviewing Kathleen Stock last year..

nauticant · 15/05/2024 08:06

The overall message I'm picking up is that there's no evidence that teaching is taking place in schools according to gender identity ideology.

They had two teachers on Radio 4. One said it was all a nothing and in any case kids were getting the appropriate teaching from resources like No Outsiders. The other, Pepe d'Atheo (sp?), said that it's all about backbenchers and kids are being used as political footballs.

ResisterRex · 15/05/2024 07:50

SEEN in journalism are commenting

x.com/journalismseen/status/1790629816045101062?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

MissMaryBennett · 15/05/2024 07:45

Yes I thought the framing in the 7.10 piece wasn’t great. The primary head was clear that ‘not much should change’ so presumably she would agree that if currently some schools are teaching these things (gender ideology and/or explicit sexual content) in primary, this is probably inappropriate.

borntobequiet · 15/05/2024 07:36

Oops cross post

borntobequiet · 15/05/2024 07:35

Was covered about half an hour ago on Radio 4 with two headteachers trying very hard not to say very much at all.

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 15/05/2024 07:34

ResisterRex · 15/05/2024 07:24

Where a head says the "hot area" is same sex. No no no. It's gender identity, ad we all know! And goes on to tell us all that No Outsiders is AMAZING.

No Outsiders are pieces of shit, who knowingly change the protected characteristics of sex to that of gender.

In resources designed (with their tagline) for "Teaching the Equality Act in Schools"

And who admitted (in an email forwarded to me) that they always use gender, not sex, in primary schools, as "it makes explaining gender reassignment easier".

ResisterRex · 15/05/2024 07:24

MissMaryBennett · 15/05/2024 07:20

Also another piece on the Today programme about 7.10ish.

Where a head says the "hot area" is same sex. No no no. It's gender identity, ad we all know! And goes on to tell us all that No Outsiders is AMAZING.

MissMaryBennett · 15/05/2024 07:20

Also another piece on the Today programme about 7.10ish.

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