Seneed vote against accepting the Cass report recommendations

Oh,it's you.

Scientists can present data and tell us what they believe it to mean. Elected officials get to decide what to do about that in line with the goals and values of society.

I should have thought better of it, shouldn't I

Mishy being mendacious. What a shock!

Yeah. I was going to respond to that post then thought better of it. Absolute nonsense.

I don't think I understand. Dr Cass is a long-time high-level paediatrician and medical researcher, not a politician.

Given Cass is a political document, not a serious medical review, and has been discredited by many Western associations, including the key American associations, it is no surprise. New leadership in Scotland see no votes in it, so dropped it (being pro LGBT). Wales still has some principles. England - lols. Tories. Say no more.

As discussed in the other thread it is a mixed bag. The Welsh government has had to accept Cass but is trying to duck out of implications. There was actually one Labour MS that sounded sort of sane in the debate. Cass is long term poison to their agenda, but it will take time to develop.

Things will come to another drama with the gender bill for the Senedd. It is illegal the question will they go all the way to pass a bill that will then get destroyed in court. They just got forced by Welsh farmers to change their minds on other stuff.

I suspect reverse ferreting may occur on gender bill. Which is a pity if you think about it. If they went ahead it would be a huge boost to gender crits in Wales if there was a chance to humiliate them like the SNP was defeated in Scotland. In Wales there has not been a chance to get a big win yet and it is needed.

So things are looking messy. Better than they were,, but a long way to go.

Well, politics being what it is, I guess opponents of the Labour Party will make various accusations against the Labour Party, while the Labour Party will vote in favour of their own wording in preference to the words used by their political opponents.

Or did you have something else in mind.

Not sure why but you seem to have gone to great lengths to construe something I clearly wasn't saying.

Having voted down the Conservative motion

an amendment was tabled by the Welsh Government

which was passed.

ie all those who voted against the Conservative motion voted for something that effectively said they would support the Cass review.

If they really believed that Cass was wrong, which they indicated by voting against the Tories, they (as clearly stated in the article - the Welsh Government) would have put forward a motion that for example, noted the Cass review but that they (the Welsh Government) would not allow the guidelines this imposed to restrict the rights of their trans constituents that they would make alternative arrangements.

As it is they have de facto accepted the Cass review as that will be the health practice.

So voting down the Tories was puerile / infactile grand standing.

And hypocrisy.

“Instead, an amendment was tabled by the Welsh Government to propose that the Senedd:”

I think that part is fairly straightforward Iwantoretire.

A conservative member of the Senedd proposed a motion.

Rather than voting with the conservatives, and supporting the Tories wording, Labour tabled their own version of the wording. The Labour version got the support of other political parties. The conservative wording didn’t get the support of other political parties,

It’s not “the Senedd” voting. The Senedd can’t vote against itself as it isn’t a single/individual entity. It’s members of the Senedd voting. The members of the Senedd are from the various political parties and they vote along party lines.

“If they really believed what they are grand standing about wouldn't they have put forward a proposal to commission services from another provider?!!”

Who’s “they” here? Do you mean the Senedd or the Welsh Government?

The Senedd and the Welsh Government are not the same thing.

The Welsh Government is comprised of those members of the Senedd who’ve been appointed as Welsh Ministers.

I’m not clear who you think has been grandstanding. I don’t see any grandstanding in the Labour wording. Was the grandstanding in the conservative motion? Or did you have something else in mind.

This article is from a couple of weeks ago and was previously discussed here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5067949-welsh-senedd-reject-cass-findings?reply=135018461

There seems to be a section of They Work for You that might help https://www.theyworkforyou.com/senedd/

There was a thread about this already, a couple of weeks ago.

Fuck.

Thank heavens children in Wales are served by NHS England.

And why on earth is it considered pro trans to say trans people shouldn't get evidence based healthcare? Just imagine if anyone tried to do that to any other group (well, apart from women obviously who are left out of medical studies as much as possible because only men count).

Also in Wales and agree they have been captured. Mark Drakeford had vowed to make us the most trans friendly country in Europe, seeming to ignore just how well that had gone for Scotland 🙄😡

It's crazy that a parliament would be voting on accepting these recommendations in the first place. Since when does methodologically conscientious research have to be approved/disapproved by politicians?

Idiotic grandstanding. And grandstanding on stilts to have failed to vote in support of the recommendations.

Does anyone know how I can check how my MS voted?

If they really felt that couldn't accept the Cass recommendations how could they support this:

Instead, an amendment was tabled by the Welsh Government to propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes the publication of the Cass review.
2. Notes that NHS Wales commissions gender identity services for children and young people 17 and under from NHS England.
3. Notes that NHS England has concluded there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of puberty suppressing hormones for the treatment of gender dysphoria in children and young people at this time.
4. Notes the Welsh Government will continue to develop the transgender guidance for schools taking account of the Cass review and stakeholder views.
This motion was passed with all 52 MSs voting in favour of it.

Surely this means the Senedd is voting against what it believes in.

But they are allowing all those people it says are not getting the care they needed to not get it, and will be telling schools to take note of the Cass review!

If they really believed what they are grand standing about wouldn't they have put forward a proposal to commission services from another provider?!!

How embarrassing for them to make themselves look so damn stupid, even after Scotlands lesson. In future how will they cover themselves?

Ah FFS. I’m in Cardiff and I despair of this shit show

Shameful.

Yes, it's cake and eat it really – they're posturing so they stay on side with the TRAs, but they can only do it (and know they can only do it) because actually they will, in effect, be adopting the recommendations, so healthcare in Wales will in any case improve. They make their point but keep their hands clean.

I hope this makes them easier to sue.