Birth Truama: Poor maternity tolerated as normal, inquiry says

(By the way, the midwives do weigh you, but only to work out whether you've gained too much or too little weight(!), no one ever looked at my pelvis)

@OvaHere

I don't think it has continued, unless it is set at a really high threshold. (I had a 9lb7 - with a growth scan showing baby was expected to be bigger than average in my notes - very small frame, back to back baby and no one said a thing. Inevitably, I had an emergency section).

In the early 90s a woman in my prenatal group was booked for an elective due to her height and size. I remember she was tiny, maybe even shorter than 5 ft. I met her again on the post natal ward after her section. I suppose I've always assumed this practice of looking at a woman's size, pelvis, size of baby etc. had just continued. Sounds like it hasn't unless it's always been one of those things that's hospital/consultant dependent.

@Owlhandbag

Thank you, you sound lovely.

Unfortunately, I really didn't meet many like you with my two babies.

Yes, of course there is more challenge with older women on average and more complicated cases, but I don't think it is just that, tbh. Women didn't expect to be ruined by birth now or in the past, but they do talk about it in a way that they didn't in the past and want help for it - both my grandmothers were young mums of four and both had "women's issues" that caused them issues for years, but both accepted that this was just what it was for them and they had no choice, just as they didn't have that much choice in planning their families either. It's not to be recommended. Women should have aspirations to be able to exercise without wetting themselves and take care of themselves.

There are also certain practices from the past that have been dropped in favour of the push to natural birth - my aunt had two caesarians in the 70s because it was understood that at 5 ft with a tall husband she was unlikely to find it straightforward - when poor Louise Thompson requested a c section for the same reason, she was ignored and now has a stoma as a result of post birth complications. None of the midwives I encountered made any effort to look at my frame, scans of my baby's size or position (back to back) in 3 days of induction - I know that if I had instead been in front of an obstetrician in a private system, this is the first thing they would do. Frankly, it feels as if lots of midwife skill has been lost in favour of putting everyone through the "natural" process if at all possible. What a huge, massive waste of resources. Not to mention the human cost.

My first birth was NHS and a horrendous experience. Yes there were some good people in the mix but overall horrendous and traumatic. To that extent that when I was pregnant again and I saw things would be no better, we paid to go private to have direct phone access to consultants and sufficient staffing. A choice not viable for most people and nor should it need to be.

Thanks, Owlhandbag. There are many wonderful midwives.

I wish I could say this is a surprise
It’s not
I’ve worked as a nurse and midwife. I wanted to make a difference as I’d had less than ideal care with my first baby, leading to PND. But as I was told, hey at least he’s ok. What should have been the best time of my life is overshadowed by memories of being ‘left’ when I didn’t know what to do, or what was happening, or snappy pot-natal ward midwives with their ‘have you fed this baby today?’ ‘Why haven’t you gone for breakfast yet’ (or lunch etc)
I vowed I’d treat my patients better.
It did make me a better midwife. I gave ‘my’ women my best care. I had some brilliant mentors to learn from and I felt very proud of being in a fantastic team.
One senior midwife said to me once- “you love this job don’t you? I can see it on your face”!!!
Many night duties were spent cuddling a baby while mum had some sleep as I wrote my reports. This wasn’t unusual at the time.
In more recent years though, care has become more complex; older mums, mums with raised BMI, medical issues, higher c/s rate etc but without the extra investment that this requires, but all we get from governments is that they’ve put more money into the NHS than ever, more doctors, nurses, midwives etc. Absolutely sick of the rhetoric.
Advances in neonatal medicine demand more cost. And all of this is right and fair- we’re in 2024 after all. It should be the best time in maternity and obstetric care.
I don’t want to say ‘oh we’re so busy you know…’blah blah etc etc and I acknowledge that there are some health professionals that I wouldn’t want care from but truly, many of us have gone home and had sleepless nights over events. And cried.
There are some fabulous midwives out there who really care, honestly and I’m so sorry that so many women have had such traumatic experiences.
I didn’t want to make this post a big whinge fest- I know it’s not all about me and the midwives; I agree things need to change and fast. I just wanted to say I get it, I really do. And I’m sorry

deep breath, don't swear

Entitled and whiney... Entitled and whiney?!

I do not have the words!

I don't think you actually would care, but do you realise how bloody awful you sound? And apparently you are also some kind of snob because apparently you think the PP is "entitled" because... she is articulate about her truly awful experience?

IIRC I'm pretty sure I've seen your username about, and I'm also pretty sure you aren't a troll, but quite honestly I am a bit gobsmacked (which doesn't happen often to me here) at your attitude towards this poster.

I think you really need to sincerely apologise and then go away and have a bloody good look at yourself for your responses to @Klingfilm - you do not come across at all well here!

(Edit: to remove a stray "that")

That attitude ran through the case that I'm familiar with. Utter disdain.

I'm so sorry, Stick.

My mother was abused (cancer). Amongst other things, staff told her she was a bed-blocker taking up space and resources that others needed. Some nurses treated her dreadfully, ignoring her requests for assistance to go to the toilet or for some water (I'm sure they were trying to 'catch her out' as fit enough to do these unaided). She was so unwell she didn't want us to complain for fear the treatment of her would worsen.

She had exploratory surgery to 'prove' there was nothing wrong with her (essentially). It was very short as a few minutes inspection showed she was riddled with metastases from her primary cancer. Who knows who had been reading her scans that were supposed to be 'clear'.

She died within weeks.

Sadly I have heard of a cancer patient being abused by nursing staff. I think it is caused by stress. The staff can't cope and take it out on the patients, and "othering" the patients helps them cope with seeing them in pain and distress. I think it happens more on maternity wards because they are more short staffed.

Because of my work I hear dozens of birth trauma stories every year, some truly horrendous. I realise that of course I am not hearing all the happy outcomes, to balance that out, but still the pattern is so so depressingly familiar and nearly always involves women not being listened to at one point or another. The idea of a "natural birth" being the shining goal is complete bollocks, should I have gone for a "natural appendicitis (outcome certain death)" because it is "natural"? Or maybe my dad should have had a "natural heart attack" instead of having his stents inserted?

I said upthread that I never considered giving birth in an NHS hospital, even though I am a lifelong NHS employee. I can also say that I never considered a vaginal birth for a moment, but that should be every woman's choice, of course. But it should be made with full counselling and discussion, not having a midwife tell you that your body is "made for it" and making you feel defective if you don't want it. The amount of women I have spoken to who were convinced to have a vaginal birth against their real wishes, and regretted it terribly afterward, some for absolutely tragic reasons, is really upsetting and makes me very angry.

Well, mainly because I am appalled by the state of maternity care in the UK and I have myself suffered what is now called birth trauma, but at the time seemed like saving my life (very bloody and prolonged miscarriage at 3 months). What appalls me is that midwives seem more interested in getting a natural birth than listening to mothers, and getting the best outcome: healthy baby and healthy mother. This worries me severely.

Well, yes. I am surprised you did not get a bed bath, but neither of us know what else was going on in the ward that day, and we both know maternity was and is understaffed. My DSD trained as a midwife and gave it up because the work load and the stress were horrendous.
I did not say you were not entitled to a bed bath, just that you came over as a bit entitled, which means something entirely different and really pertains to your writing style (yes, I know that shouldn't matter).

Bear in mind this is a thread about trauma. You are reading all the very worst experiences gathered together!

I've had one horrible time giving birth and one excellent time - all births are unique.

Great you have your DH on board as birthing partner to advocate, and a birth plan is great, too.

Its totally natural to be apprehensive, but please remember that thousands of women give birth every day. Labour is hard work, and can be challenging but you are strong and capable and able to do it. Wishing you all the very best!

Too much observation can itself impact the process. Monitoring can really impede a woman's ability to labour. And most deaths were due to post-partum infection, iirc, which is solved by hygiene measures and access to antibiotics after the event.

Probably shouldn't have read this thread at almost 29 weeks pregnant, but it's comforting to know that I'm not being unreasonable in my concerns for the upcoming birth - one of my largest fears was not being listened to, being rushed, being infantilised etc. So it's good to have these resources on hand so that my DH knows how hard he may have to advocate for me if I'm not being treated appropriately. I've also outlined my concerns and preferences in a birth plan, which hopefully gets adhered to.

So sorry to hear of the traumatic births upthread, it's so sad how women are so easily dismissed and how it's almost expected that we suffer and accept pain.

I'm another who had a traumatic birth - I was treated appallingly during labour and almost died (multiple times) during birth and the following weeks due to decisions made by midwives. I feel sick thinking about it. I sadly didn't meet a single midwife who seemed remotely competent or who wasn't horrendously rude. It affects me to this day, over ten years later - the fear of bleeding to death, what if the bleed opens again etc.
The near-death experiences led to my husband refusing to contemplate a second child (which we had always been intending) - better an only child than children with no mum, he said.
Sending my thoughts to all women (and partners) who have been through traumatic births x

From personal experience, if you decide to give birth in same hospital you already did.

A) Contact PALS to explain your last birth
B) put together birth plan written like legal document (point 1.0, point 1.2... point 2.0 etc. Focus on what you consent to, what pain relief you want and what language and level of information you want to be used)
C) put PALS contact at the top of your birth plan together with yours and partners. Highlight it.
D) Make sure if you have birth partner they push BP in face of anyone comming your way. Have several copies.
E) If you don't have birth partner do it yourself.
F)Demand. Be difficult. Challenge. Talk shit back. If you can hold phone, take photo of name badge or let your partner do that. Keep notes. Make them aware you will chase them back for shit.

And good luck.
There are some really good staff members out there!