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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why it will all fall apart in the end

37 replies

MyPearlViper · 12/05/2024 11:53

I am a man, I know I am a man

I want to be a woman. I know I can't be a woman.

But what I can do is try to convince everyone to call me a woman. Ok, all well and good, and until the recent successes in the courts the Mermaids/ Stonewall axis was keeping this line steady ...

But ultimately it's self destroying. It's King Midas, or Samson destroying the temple.

Because by asking everyone to call me a woman, to accept me as a woman... we must, as a society, change the definition of what a woman is.

And that is not what I want, I don't want to be a "new" or an "artificial" woman, I want to be a proper woman.

If I don't get society to agree, I remain a man. But if I do, I become a pseudo-woman.

I will never get what I want. Ever.

(Not me for real, obviously. I'm adopting a voice. Tchoh!)

OP posts:
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 12/05/2024 15:52

And that is not what I want, I don't want to be a "new" or an "artificial" woman, I want to be a proper woman.

Exactly. Hence the fact that the gender movement is massively invested in maintaining all the sex-based stereotypes, because aping those stereotypes is what validates their identity as a supposed member of that sex class. If you don't need to wear high heels and swishy dresses to be a woman, how on earth are you supposed to show that you are one?

ArabellaScott · 12/05/2024 15:48

Adopting the superficial sex-coding of femininity is not the same as empathising with women. I'd say the latter actively interferes with the former, in fact, because the former relies on signals/signifiers divorced from the signified adult human female.

Sex affects gender of course, but one can only imagine that gender can affects sex if dehumanisation is involved. Sex is a material reality, whereas gender is a social construct. One can't load all meaning onto a social construct without devaluing material reality, i.e. pretending words matter more than humans.

tl;dr: men do not wear fake breasts out of empathy with women.

LauderSyme · 12/05/2024 15:27

I think the positioning of some TW as the total opposite of good allies to women is very bizarre and telling, given we are a group they aspire to be members of.

One can only assume that more is going on with them than their aspiration to assume a different gender identity.

ArabellaScott · 12/05/2024 15:20

lechiffre55 · 12/05/2024 12:32

I think what they don't realise is the amount of resentment they generate when they try to force people to do something they don't want to do.
I think it's related to narcissism, they don't care how the other person feels, only that they do what they are told. The resentment they generate by trying to force people is what defeats them.
I've always thought in an alternate universe where all this had been handled differently from the start, the results would be very different. But they made a choice to go in hard with no debate, violence, and intimidation, and here we are, it's all falling apart and political leaders are being ousted by a medical review of all things. It may even completely kill their political party at the next election. Utter shitshow.

Edited

Alternatively, they know exactly how much resentment they generate and enjoy creating chaos and ill feeling.

There are both - sincere if a bit misguided people who just haven't thought it through, and malignant narcissists attracted to the opportunity to centre themselves and manipulate people.

MyPearlViper · 12/05/2024 15:19

lechiffre55 · 12/05/2024 12:32

I think what they don't realise is the amount of resentment they generate when they try to force people to do something they don't want to do.
I think it's related to narcissism, they don't care how the other person feels, only that they do what they are told. The resentment they generate by trying to force people is what defeats them.
I've always thought in an alternate universe where all this had been handled differently from the start, the results would be very different. But they made a choice to go in hard with no debate, violence, and intimidation, and here we are, it's all falling apart and political leaders are being ousted by a medical review of all things. It may even completely kill their political party at the next election. Utter shitshow.

Edited

Yes I agree completely. "No debate" was a tactical error and could have been redeemed with some smart lawyerspeak, but TWAW is just asking everyone to agree that a lie is the truth.

You have to conclude that spoiled people who think they can just shout loud and get what they want.... aren't actually all that smart?

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 12/05/2024 12:35

FlakyPoet · 12/05/2024 12:06

Yes OP there is a foot-stamping, spoilt, “I’ll skweam and skweam until I’m sick” element to it.

I have always thought Violet Elizabeth Bott was underrated. Bet she grew up to be a second wave feminist.

lechiffre55 · 12/05/2024 12:32

I think what they don't realise is the amount of resentment they generate when they try to force people to do something they don't want to do.
I think it's related to narcissism, they don't care how the other person feels, only that they do what they are told. The resentment they generate by trying to force people is what defeats them.
I've always thought in an alternate universe where all this had been handled differently from the start, the results would be very different. But they made a choice to go in hard with no debate, violence, and intimidation, and here we are, it's all falling apart and political leaders are being ousted by a medical review of all things. It may even completely kill their political party at the next election. Utter shitshow.

ArabellaScott · 12/05/2024 12:29

The impossibility of the quest is part of the appeal, imho.

IdealHomeExhibition · 12/05/2024 12:24

Reallybadidea · 12/05/2024 12:00

Hence India Willoughby claiming to be a biological woman with a cervix

Bonkers. India might as well claim to be an octopus it would make a more convincing octopus than a woman.

CocoapuffPuff · 12/05/2024 12:06

Hence the devastation when it becomes clear that they've fooled nobody but themselves. That truth after months or even years of being lied to must hurt like hell. Lies are not kind.

FlakyPoet · 12/05/2024 12:06

Yes OP there is a foot-stamping, spoilt, “I’ll skweam and skweam until I’m sick” element to it.

Reallybadidea · 12/05/2024 12:00

Hence India Willoughby claiming to be a biological woman with a cervix