'They': being expected to remember the requirement to deny reality

I thought I explained quite clearly that I see him in a large group where we frequently talk about what each other is doing (eg putting on a amateur dramatic play: "OK so I go this way and Tom does his part? ..." ) so yes we do frequently refer to each other in the 3rd person with that person present. So don't tell me this is avoidable in this hobby, it isn't.

Yeah I noticed the misgendering too.

It's almost like the whole thing is complete and utter horse shit.

Almost.

I think what shocks me more than just the pronouns is that somewhere along the line somebody/somewhere has decided that there is such a thing as gender affirming surgery to create a so called non binary body.

Some people are always going to be better at the Stroop Test than others but it wouldn't be a test if it wasn't a mental challenge - adding greater cognitive dissidence to all our everyday lives doesn't feel like a progressive move but it seems others disagree.

🤣

I did ask DD once (as she was having a rant about non-binary pronouns) whether she'd ever heard anyone accidentally 'he' a female non-binary person or 'she' a male one. Nope. Everyone defaults to the pronoun of the person's sex if they slip up.

It wasn't just Graham. In a package on the BBC News that followed, the culture correspondent David Sillito only referred to Bambi Thug using she and her.

It's utter nonsense. And it's not about how people dress. There are many people, though it does seem to be more so for women - who dress in a way that's stereotypical for their sex.

There's no single definition of what it means to be non-binary, and that proves it's not a real thing.

To the poster who is finding anxiety about 'misgendering' the 'non-binary' daughter, perhaps you could say that you are concerned that you might inadvertently misgender, and this isn't your intention as you know it's important to the mother and off spring that preferred pronouns are used. So, just as she is asking you to use the preferred pronouns, you are asking her to not draw attention if/when you don't use them.

That sounds like a fair exchange of requests. If she objects, perhaps a more detailed conversation can be had about the cognitive demand of this and how it impacts on the quality of interaction and, in turn, the relationship

"He's been non binary since November 2023 apparently."

He kind of had to be, to be the "first" something or other to win. Dana International, who won it 26 years ago, is trans; and Conchita, who won it 10 years ago, is a gay drag queen. So what's a bloke in a dress to do, to avoid seeming old hat?

I have a friend / acquaintance who has a daughter who has become a ‘they.’ The mother is very on it with correct pronoun use.
Whenever I am in the mothers company I constantly feel on edge in case I ‘misgender’ the ‘they/them’ child and get judged as some sort of ‘right wing bigot’. It doesn’t make for a relaxing time spent with this friend/acquaintance. I don’t care what people refer to themselves as but it’s unfair to expect people to ignore their own eyes and adapt their language accordingly.

It will be interesting to see whether there’s any mention of this in the Eurovision coverage, or whether Graham has to apologise.

The non binary movement really pisses me off unfortunately. Thinks it’s breaking boundaries and can’t see that it’s actually putting them in place. It’s regressive, backwards. Inventing a new box for themselves to keep men and women in their own boxes. We should be rejecting the notion of gender and the expectations that come with it, not worshipping it.

@Runor
OP, I’m really interested in your reference to House of Games, and that feeling of being on high alert. Obviously humans are evolved to experience periods of high stress, but we are well aware that if those periods extend over longer time periods, it can have very bad outcomes for mental & physical health.

I've been thinking about this for a while. What would I do if someone requested the use of pronouns, that are contrary to their appearance, and policed the use?

I've been suffering from anxiety disorder since my teenage years, and was only diagnosed properly and given a helpful therapy in my late 40s. My anxiety is all about being judged by others. I can say that this has made my life difficult day to day and in the big picture, and I let opportunitues pass me by that others wouldn't think twice about (e.g. not married, no kids). I've been living with permanently elevated stress levels for decades.

My decision is that I would remove these people from my life. Either by stopping going to a meeting, disinviting them if I was the one organizing it, or removing myself (up to looking for a new job).

I am not allowing people to live in my head rent-free anymore. In fact, come to think of it, I might use this exact phrase to explain it to them.

Meanwhile, I was impressed that a local comp did a women in maths day all about Ava lovelace and coding.

She broke the code, no eyeliner and flags required.

That was done decades ago. The problem today is that they think they’re the first.

I expect he’ll issue a grovelling apology. Cowardly little weasel that he is.

I like this response:

I haven't seen her performance but a clip was just that non musical roaring that claims to be a type of thrash metal.

Bambi Thug's whole performance ( for Ireland) was an example utter juvenility. "Look how anti the repressive catholic establishement we are, with our song about devils and witches" Even the name 'Bambi Thug'. Honestly, grow up!

I think the problem is that western culture has invented and taken on every single fashion trend possible and they've run out of options.

So they're recycling everything and adding "queer" messing with pronouns with a dash of shit colour.

https://twitter.com/HomoLittlest/status/1789445828962111664

Yet somehow the non-binaries are completely identifiable as male and female whatever their presentation.

I mean, fair dos but if all it really involves is cutting your hair short and not wearing clothes that represent feminity why not just be gender non conforming and that's it? I was exactly like that in my late teens but I was still a female person.

It is ridiculous, but then there's also the issue that particularly vulnerable young women take it as step further and get mastectomies or even micro dose testosterone.

Twitter is awash with a random straight woman on Eurovision (I didn't watch) who claims to be trans/ queer/ non binary who basically just appears to dress up rather goth with some pale pink and blue added in.

Perfectly apparent that even in the context of Eurovision, the Irish and the Swiss entries were the most desperately attention-seeking acts of all. I just want to say to them: you’re just another person! Literally, another human being who breathes and eats and shits like the rest of us. And you are one or other sex like the rest of us, no matter what complex mental gymnastics you engage in to make yourself feel special in some way. In thousands of years time, when archaeologists find your skeletal remains, you’re a man or a woman. That’s it.

God, I miss the days when Eddie Izzard was ‘a bloke in a dress’.

Tempted sometimes to ask someone who says they about someone else repeatedly to ask "why are you misgendering him/her?".

Brock Colyar's essay is worth reading.

"These days, it feels as if an identity that, not long ago, felt unique to me in most rooms I entered has gone mass. Yes, part of what I’m personally upset about is the fact that this thing I loved isn’t so alt anymore. But more than that, it feels as if pronoun culture has contributed to nonbinary becoming just the third gender after male and female, more static and concrete than its original fluid intentions. The same nonbinary person who complained about nonbinary stereotypes lamented to me, “I don’t want to be a homogeneous normcore mashing of the two genders.” Ben hoped, “If man or woman can mean so many things, then so can nonbinary.” We all became nonbinary to escape gendered expectations, and now we’re stuck again. I can’t help but think that the walking-on-eggshells battle for pronouns is turning my gender into a human-resources-approved corporate product, more neutered than neutral, and, maybe above all else, profoundly unromantic. Next time, just call me by my name."

https://archive.ph/ECbBt