BBC article on domestic violence - 'family based' solutions - why is it making me uncomfortable?

This article from a legal perspective seems to understand more than this funded group:

Reassessing presumption of parental involvement in cases involving domestic abuse

The Family Law Journal article addresses the dangers of a ‘pro-contact’ culture within the English legal system, and the risk of exposing children to an abusive parent. In considering the negative impact that contact with an emotionally abusive parent can have on a child’s emotional and physical wellbeing, the article proposes that Practice Direction 12J should tip the scale in favour of no contact.

The Domestic Abuse Act 2021 has brought the harm caused to a child who witnesses abuse into sharp focus. Yet, the case law has established an exceedingly high threshold for departure from the presumption. The threshold requires ‘cogent’ or ‘compelling’ reasons for no contact. In previous case law, the judiciary seemingly performs an inversion of logic and discounts the effect of coercive control on a perpetrator’s children, contrary to the express provisions of PD 12J. This has led some experts, such as Jane Callaghan, to argue that children are considered ‘passive witnesses of abuse’ by the judiciary. Such an attitude is harmful because it fails to consider the indirect harm a coercive and controlling household can cause.

https://www.stewartslaw.com/news/reassessing-presumption-of-parental-involvement-in-cases-involving-domestic-abuse/

I was abused for 2 years before I found the courage to walk away.

If we both had support - me to realise I DID NOT deserve that, and him to realise that he has serious mental health issues, it may have helped us both walk away sooner. He was genuinely dragged up and knew no better. He was destined to be that way. So how about we do support them to STOP THEM, to educate them.
Abusers should be supported . Sometimes they know no better.

I agree, but to be fair, perhaps the pp meant 'support them both' as in 'support both types of programmes, for women who feel they can leave and women who feel they can't'

Rather than 'both' referring to victim and abuser?

Not everyone wantsto get up and just leave their abusive partner. It takes time to get there.

Surely you mean

Not everyone feels they are able to get up and just leave their abusive partner. It takes time to get there.

Not everyone realises they can leave their abusive partner. It takes time to get there.

@bilgewater Of course he will that is what they do. And the children will be harmed no matter what mum does.

My SIL’s abusive ex is skilled in therapy speak and ‘my mental health’ talk.
He’d have loved a programme like this. Plays straight into the coercive control mindset and gives (overwhelmingly male) abusers a chance to play to the gallery. She managed to get a divorce but will never be free of him as they have two young dc; he uses them as pawns in the game.

I think contacting someone about it seems a good idea, but I'm not conversant with the structures or bodies involved.

Neither am I, but was sort of thinking that she is attached to Government but outside of it, and works directly with DV projects so could be in a position to raise concerns.

Not everyone wants to get up and just leave their abusive partner. It takes time to get there.
So how about we DO support those who are abused and the abuser, until they get the courage to walk.
It's not a win win situation. Its not a case of convincing the abused to stay with the abuser. You may have the attitude that if you are being abused, just leave. But not all abusive relationships are easy to walk away from.
So yes.
Support them, both!

If anyone has been following the dialogue in Australia, there has finally been a widespread narrative that some of these men abusing their partners cannot be rehabilitated or safely allowed contact with their partners and they need harsher measures and better recording. The only
actual change so far is some more funding for women to leave but that is a big help and it’s a pretty recent shift in dialogue. And a lot better shift than this article!! In terms of saving women’s lives.

Years ago I went to a talk by a famous marriage counsellor. He said after 30 years of counselling he had finally realised that all he had done was help train couples to attack each other in more subtle ways using pseudo therapeutic language. None of the marriages were actually healthier or happier.

Seems to me that these sorts of programmes simply help a man become controlling in a more subtle and insidious manner making it harder for the woman to recognise it and leave the man. More effective gaslighting.

Ask a woman who has escaped an abusive relationship, and she will probably be able to tell you whether she thinks the psychological abuse, control, and coercion was 'less bad' than the physical.

My body is changed beyond repair because of the trauma he put my brain through.

Yes this. He doesn't bother with them anymore but there was a time when I wished I hadn't left, because he was never alone with them when we were together. They were hurt themselves during contact but it had to carry on regardless.

Let’s deal with the “she loves him” issue.

True conversation

Her “I go back to him because I love him”

Me: “what is it about him that you love?”

Her “when we were first together he was so attentive, nobody ever cared about me as much as him” (there was more than this)

Me “so what did he do to make you feel you could go back”

Her “ He was like he was when i first knew him his old self, loving and caring again the man i missed”

Me “So how long did the man you missed last?”

Her “A few weeks, he promised all sorts, I wanted to believe him, it was so good, like when we were first together”

Me “When you were first together……. “

Her “what do you mean”

Me “so what you want from him is how he made you feel when you were first together”

Her “yes”

Me “so what you have to do is leave him, every now and then, to get the real him back?”

Her “oh”

Me “is it possible that the real him is not the man you love. Is it possible therefore that the man you love does not actually exist?”

She never went back

Maybe i should do an AMA thread.

I witnessed DV as a child and built on that, to develop my expertise. Thats what women do.

Yes. Agree @anothernamitynamenamechange

I agree there is a place for pragmatism - some women won't leave their partner and if it isn't at a threshold where police/social services can force a change maybe working with the couple can help. But, assuming that the woman is choosing to stay at what point is the "intervention" actually enabling. Someone very good at convincing themselves they are doing right by sticking by him, that he isn't that bad, that he has made progress is also going to be very good at convincing themselves that his participation in the programme is proof of his goodness, or that the programme runners themselves approve of the relationship because they are helping to make it better. I think it could be very easy for the supposed neutral third party to be drawn into an unhealthy dynamic.

I also think there is a place for early intervention - but ideally that should be happening before the men even get into a relationship - working with boys or young adults who might have seen violence growing up to reprogramme their attitudes/boost their own self esteem. I would be so happy for my taxes to go to a really good, in depth support programme like that because at the moment support is really patchy. Even targeted/advertised support for men to access really early in a relationship if they are worried about repeating patterns would be good. It would take self awareness/motivation, but without that self awareness/motivation I don't think the programmes would work anyway. Waiting for the relationship to become coercive/abusive is leaving it too late.

Thank you for your posts @Karensalright

Affirms the instinctive dis-ease with the article.

💐💐and thank you too, to daffodilandtulip and janie143

It’s such a mess. I know that if women do manage to leave for good they’re often forced to send their children back to their abusive exes for unsupervised visitation.

@Prawncow Victims lie all the time about physical abuse. Perp tells them that if they leave he will keep the children because they are a terrible parent, slag, dirty, incapable etc.

And then an incident is reported by them, or the hospital, a neighbour, and guess what they are told if they dont leave the children will be removed.

Victims end up in such emotional confusion.

It looks like they are not only funded by Government (cant see which Department) but also fund groups.

Our priority areas are:

1. Supporting parenting
2. Strengthening family networks
3. Domestic abuse
4. Relationships for care experienced children
5. Service and practice models

Note domestic violence is only third on the list.
https://foundations.org.uk/opportunities/funding/

I dont understand how which ever part of the Government it is, is funding something that puts the probability of violence as not being the priority issue.

Is it worth contacting Nicole Jacobs about this? https://domesticabusecommissioner.uk/

I think you've put your finger on what precisely feels so off about this - the article seems to treat the two sexes very differently, with only the female victims under pressure to stay and 'make it work' (its unclear whether the programmes actually do treat the sexes differently).

How awful to be in an abusive relationship where people who are supposed to be helping you side with your adviser - made me feel a bit sick.

PPs have suggested it's no bad thing to help abusers to see the error of their ways and learn to be be different. True, it could be really useful but don't make the woman stay with the man while he tries to learn to behave better!

@theilltemperedclavecinist Hi i agree entirely. I set up a legal clinic within my outreach service.

The solicitors in my area were falling all over themselves to get the brief (as obviously a source of business)

I was so overwhelmed with interest that i was able to set strict criteria, an expectation was that they must go into court on emergency same day applications basis.

As light follows day we got the best barristers, and god what a team it was.

Dedicated for women by women working together. It was like a snow plow or a tank never went to magistrates always moved to county.

Never lost a case.

Wish that model was widely adopted…