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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 11:09

I mean it's exactly the same.

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 11:09

OhBuggerandArse · 07/05/2024 10:52

I have to say, I was surprised that she seemed so willing to say that medical transition was appropriate for some children, even if we don't know which ones - that made me rather uncomfortable.

If there is no way of telling who will benefit and who will be harmed it doesn't matter. It'd be the same as sterilising all teen girls who say they don't want babies on the reasoning that some won't change their mind.

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Sloejelly · 07/05/2024 11:07

OhBuggerandArse · 07/05/2024 10:52

I have to say, I was surprised that she seemed so willing to say that medical transition was appropriate for some children, even if we don't know which ones - that made me rather uncomfortable.

Totally agree.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 11:07

NoBinturongsHereMate · 07/05/2024 10:19

Mackay: What does good research look like to you? Should trans people be represented?

That's a question from someone who doesn't understand scientific research.

I should add that was a paraphrase and possibly the second part a bit clumsily worded by me.

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Sloejelly · 07/05/2024 11:02

ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:38

Mackay: activists think that your report presented transition as the worst possible outcome. Your response?

Cass: risk is that treatment may be given to the wrong group of people. Reason that's negative is because transition does not come without costs, fertility, sexual functions, bone health risk, limitations of surgery, etc

This point - the claim from activists that ‘transitioning’ is good or, at worst, neutral. It is clearly the worst possible outcome. It is a bit like asking ‘why do you think amputating a leg is worse than antibiotics for an infected toe?’ There may come a point where amputation is necessary but it is never better than curing the infection through antibiotics and keeping the leg (though this is a poor comparison as there might actually become a need to amputate a leg…)

This actually reveals this is little to do with resolving any sort of dysphoria but rather about the ability to demand body modification and making others play along with your fantasy.

OhBuggerandArse · 07/05/2024 10:52

I have to say, I was surprised that she seemed so willing to say that medical transition was appropriate for some children, even if we don't know which ones - that made me rather uncomfortable.

littlbrowndog · 07/05/2024 10:49

Thanks arabella

Ginnyweasleyswand · 07/05/2024 10:43

Yes thanks @ArabellaScott

I liked that the answer to the 'trans people being represented in research' question was along the lines of 'of course in the same way that patients are always involved in research as a matter of course in standard good practice' i.e. a veiled 'you clearly know nothing about how good research works'.

tobee · 07/05/2024 10:36

Thanks @ArabellaScott

NoBinturongsHereMate · 07/05/2024 10:19

Mackay: What does good research look like to you? Should trans people be represented?

That's a question from someone who doesn't understand scientific research.

heathspeedwell · 07/05/2024 10:15

Cass is so clearly intelligent and caring, it makes it much harder for the extremists to ignore her findings.

Thanks Arabella.

EggcornAcorn · 07/05/2024 10:12

Thank you Arabella.

INeedAPensieve · 07/05/2024 10:10

It was impressive that Dr Cass kept her cool, I would have properly lost my temper at all of those idiots in the parliament complicit in this absolute horror show.

Ginnyweasleyswand · 07/05/2024 10:09

I just watched a bit of it. It was a brilliant brain having to explain complex issues to a bunch of mostly fools - most of whom believed that the Emperor was wearing invisible clothing rather than just walking around naked.

And a large number of whom were 100% complicit in harms caused to vulnerable children via a social movement using trite soundbites and performative virtue signalling in place of evidence based medicine.

How she didn't explode in rage the harms they've foisted upon confused children, I don't know.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 10:03

So impressed by Cass' depth of knowledge, thoughtfulness, even handedness and grasp of the situation(s) and complexities. I suppose a lifetime of expertise and four years of immersion in a subject will do that.

😊

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:59

Ash Regan's second question refused, meeting to end at 10 am.

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:59

Ash Regan: Question about females presenting, majority of whom are same sex attracted, more complexity of presentation. Screen for neurodiversity, can you expand on change in cohort, risks, etc.

Cass: Research was already weak on previous cohort, even more limited on current cohort, can't make any assumptions that original studies read across this group, important we consider this new group in a broader context of adolescent wellbeing, mental health stresses, social media, expectations ,exposure to porn, distress, for some yp that distress about gender norms may manifest in questioning 'gender identity'. New cohort - old research can't be relied on. One thing lost in debate is mind-body interaction, unpacking is complex and difficult.

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INeedAPensieve · 07/05/2024 09:56

ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:55

MSPs are exempt from that rule, I believe.

Show quote history

Of course they are....🙄

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:56

Question on adult services:

Number of people with concerns from adult services, same sorts of young people moving through that had complexity of presentation, clinical concerns about having to make decisions quickly.

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INeedAPensieve · 07/05/2024 09:55

Also thanks Arabella for listening and writing all this down, much appreciated 👍

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:55

INeedAPensieve · 07/05/2024 09:55

How dare Gillian McKay wear a politically motivated lanyard; that was clearly deliberate. I hope Dr Cass is not intimidated.

Also I thought the Scottish parliament had removed the right to wear any activist or politically motivated lanyards and only the Scottish parliament official one was now allowed?

MSPs are exempt from that rule, I believe.

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INeedAPensieve · 07/05/2024 09:55

How dare Gillian McKay wear a politically motivated lanyard; that was clearly deliberate. I hope Dr Cass is not intimidated.

Also I thought the Scottish parliament had removed the right to wear any activist or politically motivated lanyards and only the Scottish parliament official one was now allowed?

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:54

Question on what else was needed other than research:

Challenge for Gids was being a single service provider, makes it v difficult. setting up a more collaborative structure with central hub to support regional centres, same standards of care throughout, shared clinical guidance, training, research, shared data set.

Cass suggests Scotland sharing practise would probably be welcome on both sides.

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:52

Mochan: Question re same sex attracted young people - do we need to take that apart and look at a bill that deals with same sex attraction and trans identity?

Cass: Yes. A high percentage are same sex attraction, you can see how the issues get conflated, this may have been naive but I was surprised by how much homophobia there still is, as well as transphobia. We do have to support people to understand and express sexuality as well as gender identity

Mochan: Why no trans people included in review team?

Cass: That was 4 or 5 people. We weren't excluding. Nobody trans applied. Tokenist representative not helpful. We ensured wide engagement, with advocacy groups, service users, 18 focus groups with young people, roundtables with support groups, qualitative research, consulted internationally.

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 07/05/2024 09:48

Carol Mochan, queston about 'affirming' care and diagnostic overshadowing. How do conversion therapy ban would affect that situation? Can you advise?

Cass: Big challenge. I'm a doctor not a litigator. Issue has been about 'intent', if therapist engages with a YP and YPs views change, and they subsequently blame the therapist - how can a therapist's intent be legally determined? The anxiety is making clinicians even more anxious about working in this area.

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