RSPB women-only photography workshops

Just gotta lurve putting actual women down below other sorts of 'women'.

We need that legal definition of 'woman' which equates to sex not gender.

As they’re experts on birds, I assume the RSPB have noticed that some birds lay eggs and some don’t. I wonder what they make of that.

Yes, especially as it includes males who are not recognised as having a protected characteristic (gender reassignment) under the EA.

We need a Forstater equivalent - a bloke who will sue one of these idiot organisations.

I reckon they’ll have upset some NBs by including them in a description of women.

Oh, right, the RSPB extends welcome to all and no-one will be discriminated against for who they are - except actual women, whose identity as biological females is lumped in with men who think they are women etc. Nice one, RSPB - glad I don't go birdwatching (and for someone who was young in the 70s there are some very interesting puns there!)

Years ago there was an AIBU thread that included many examples of this phenomenon. One of them was about a chap who couldn't keep up with the men in the cycling group so decided to join the women's fitness rides (Breeze?) that had always been very sociable and companionable.

He raced ahead of everyone else and harrumphed about being 'kept waiting' for the slow ones at various points. So, the atmosphere changed, it was no longer suitable for the range of women who used to attend and the women ended up leaving.

Couldn't keep up with the men, was allowed to change the culture of the women's group (socialisation?) and women ended up leaving.

ETA: found the thread. I've largely got the details right.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4186758-arseholes-who-ve-ruined-groups-and-hobbies

We could suggest that the RSPB run queer only sessions for all those trans women, genderqueer women, non binary people, etc to twitch together.

And yes to the dominating men who ruin the vibe of a group of women. My friend is a member of a conservation related volunteer group. All capable, knowledgeable women who know their stuff and enjoy meeting up and getting on with their tasks in a friendly and collaborative fashion. A middle aged bloke (retired Big Cheese but no specialist knowledge) joins and immediately takes it upon himself to mansplain what they've been doing for years and tries to 'organise' them 'more efficiently'. Several women have melted away from the group and joined something else that meets at a different time. My friend refuses to give up what she enjoys and resists the urge to push him in the river.

My husband is a birder and on the odd occasion I’ve joined him on a trip to see a rare bird, the other spotters are 95+% men. My entirely anecdotal experience is that many birders are the type of chap who is a bit nerdy, and could easily have fallen into stamp collecting or train spotting instead (DH included). There’s a very similar “collector” and “completist” mentality going on across these hobbies.

So I can understand the RSPB recognising this and wanting to widen access to encourage a wider range of people (non-nerds, both men and women!) with different interests in birds and wildlife. Including women. The problem is that a lot of the well meaning chaps don’t understand why women don’t want to be cooped up in remote hides with slightly strange men with poor social skills (at best). So I can understand how on one hand they’re trying to do the right thing and on the other, missing the point spectacularly.

Bloody hell. Not quite as grim as the WI who are inclusive of all this shite, but not far off. At this point, why even bother if you are letting men into institutions and events that are designated women only. It’s disgraceful.

Really hoping 'floral sandwich box' isn't a euphemism.

I hadn’t realised that. I’m a member and enjoy reading the regular mansplaining moans as well as the expertise and community.

Photography is well done for the manspainers so even just for that reason I would enjoy female only RSPB sessions. I will email.

Non-men. The word they're looking for is 'non-men', not 'women'.

Absolutely. I participate in life in the real world. I’m not some female separatist who cowers ‘Tubbs-like’ at the sight of a man or hisses at them like they’re pantomime villains. I recognise that scenario when ‘a man speaks’ in a predominantly female group - particularly when it relates to anything sciency or technical. So many, TOO many times it shifts the dynamic - we all surely recognise that??

So why can’t we exclude the male sex even if they’re wearing lipstick, or pastels or carry a floral sandwich box? And why can’t those transwomen not understand and empathise with us? It’s seemingly the one gender stereotype many refuse to conform to in their rigid world-view of what it is to ‘live like a woman’

Angry. Speechless. Powerless. And fucking angry AGAIN.

THIS. THIS is the shit women have to deal with. ‘Where are all the transwomen winning Olympic Golds?’ ‘I’ve shared the mirror with some lovely transwomen in the Ladies - why are you so hateful?’ ‘Why do you think that all transwomen are predators?’ Ad infinitum. FUCK OFF.

Sometimes, not always, just sometimes, I want a time and space where I know there will only be women present. Why the fuck isn’t that allowed?

Breathe.

Couldn't a bloke that doesn't wear dresses go after them for discrimination?

I can't get past the idea that they can both recognise that a women only event would be a positive & include men 🤯

What a waste of a good original idea. I’m fine with mixed groups, though I often feel more comfortable and ask more questions in an all-female group, so I learn more and enjoy it more.

But as soon a group includes only those men who want to intrude in women’s spaces, the whole dynamic changes. I don’t want to be part of a strange man’s fantasy.

Edited for typo.

You can almost feel, reading that, how pleased with themselves they are for having jumped through a load of “inclusivity” hoops while providing exactly zero additional support to women who might be interested in birdwatching.

It's effectively an event that anyone can attend. And there are people who'd choose to do it just to be disruptive.

Leaving aside the predator issue, there is no need for anyone to attend in other than clothes, there's no indication it needs to be gendered. Nobody can legally challenge anyone's identity and it's a polite social fiction that women can.

Love also how 'cisgender women' are at the bottom of the 'women' list. Could they be any more offensive? Not only in calling women 'cisgender' but also putting them at the end of the 'women' list.

Are you a woman or a woman*?

I don’t want any asterisks in female spaces.

Nice little word within word there too…

What if you're biologically male and call yourself NB? NB people are welcome apparently so I guess they're included too?
What a complete load of BS.

No I disagree - she’s opened it up to all males. She has left herself open to any male who has called themselves a woman for years or the bloke who just calls himself a woman for that day. How can she dispute someone’s self identity or when it started.

Surely this is discriminatory by the RSPB. It is offering an event with eligibility criteria that include some, but not all, males. And I assume it would also exclude women who consider themselves to be men. All under the guise of being a single sex event (which it is clearly not).