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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Non binary changing rooms???

107 replies

Gcn · 04/05/2024 09:17

Name changed as outing. Yesterday a member of staff told me that "they" are unhappy using either the male or female changing rooms in work, because as non binary they don't feel safe in either. They've been using the (ladies) loo to get changed in but aren't happy and think we should provide non binary changing rooms.

I think that's madness. So they aren't happy getting changed with just men or just women, but would be happy to share a changing room with both???

Work is all about the kindness, and supporting staff - so I've been told by manager to find a solution.. Great

What would you do?

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unsync · 05/05/2024 08:08

swashbucklecheer · 04/05/2024 09:19

Change the male ones to non-binary. See what happens then.

Definitely this.

Codlingmoths · 05/05/2024 04:32

Submit a request to manager for constructing bathrooms for each gender, along with a list of 50 odd genders taken from one of the usual ‘we make up things about gender’ sources. Tell staff member manager has rejected this so I’m really sorry, we are all being oppressed together by manager.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/05/2024 00:08

For 1 and 2, a survey of all male and all female staff would be appropriate,

The expensive part of this is inventing and building the time machine needed to include future staff in the consultation.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 04/05/2024 20:35

ittakes2 · 04/05/2024 17:35

I don't know - but surely if we want to keep safe spaces for women the world does have to change for it to be the norm to have three options?

Where is the OP supposed to magic a third space from?

SpicyMoth · 04/05/2024 18:36

Surely if they truly feel that unsafe they can simply change clothes at home?

Is it uniform they need to change into - I thought it was pretty common for most people to arrive at work already in uniform??

I also don't understand them not being comfortable in female changing rooms, or male changing rooms, so instead they opt to use a female loo....????
How is the loo any different than the changing room, do the changing rooms not also have their own cubicles?

agent765 · 04/05/2024 17:59

Gcn · 04/05/2024 09:26

Manager said we need to be considerate of persons feelings. Not sure how we do that. It's total madness

I don't have anything to suggest that hasn't already been mentioned but I wish I'd been considered this special at work.

MagpiePi · 04/05/2024 17:57

GardenCherisher · 04/05/2024 13:00

You can't just relabel the Men's anyway, as I imagine any Muslim male employees - the more devout/conservative ones who don't shake hands with women and wear long sleeved tops and trousers all year round - may not be too chuffed.
And religion is legally a protected characteristic.

I'd have a meeting with them and HR (esp. anyone sensible with a legal background), get them to do as much talking as possible, say nothing yourself, and take it from there. With any luck the issue may evaporate...

It doesn't seem to matter about Muslim women when men who say they are female use female spaces, whether they are labelled or not.

WomanWithoutNeedOfPrefix · 04/05/2024 17:49

But as this is public sector the chances are despite being labelled as being segregrated by sex, the relevant policy will tell you that the toilets/shower rooms/changing facilities are already actually segregated by self-identified gender. And that as a non-binary/gender fluid person you can make the choice which facilities to use depending on how you feel about yourself in that moment. (I'm not joking. This is what the policy at my place of work says - thank you Stonewall). If this is the same for you all facilities are already mixed sex and as your employee has full access to both I'm not really sure what else you can do.

ittakes2 · 04/05/2024 17:35

I don't know - but surely if we want to keep safe spaces for women the world does have to change for it to be the norm to have three options?

forgotmyusername1 · 04/05/2024 17:25

There you go

Non binary changing rooms???
NameChange0101010101 · 04/05/2024 17:16

Note from an (otherwise excellent) comment above that it's not 'one person' who gets raped per day in UK schools, its one girl.

Sex matters.

mumda · 04/05/2024 17:06

Are they prejudging peoples binary status?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 04/05/2024 15:58

@Gcn

"Hi Manager. I've been giving some thought to our non binary changing room conundrum. We can put signs on the changing room doors. We'll replace the sign on the men's with "Male (men, trans women and AMAB non binary and gender diverse people)" and the sign on the women's with, "Female (women, trans men and AFAB non binary and gender diverse people)". That way everyone's gender identity is acknowledged. You know as well as I do that there isn't an extra space we can repurpose to be a non binary changing room for the benefit of one or two people, and even if there was, it's hard to justify the cost given that there has been a public sector pay freeze for almost 15 years now. I think it's quite offensive of them to say that they don't feel safe sharing women's changing rooms with their female colleagues; there is absolutely no risk of them coming to any actual harm in our company. If this is unacceptable to them then I don't see another solution than for them to carry on changing in the women's toilets as they have been doing up to now. I can't see any other solution, other than making the existing changing rooms unisex which would be obviously unacceptable to pretty much everyone else."

AnotherAngryAcademic · 04/05/2024 15:23

viques · 04/05/2024 12:25

Well we all know in hindsight what being kind and sharing has done for women and previously safe spaces for women, are you suggesting that disabled people should also be grateful to have their spaces hijacked share too?

This.

Disabled facilities are for disabled people. Telling disabled people to budge up and share with non-disabled people who “don’t feel safe” in sex-segregated changing rooms and toilets is exactly the same as telling women to budge up and share with those of the male sex who “don’t feel safe” in men’s changing rooms and toilets.

If you don’t accept the argument that women should budge up and share with one man so that he “shuts up for a bit” - and we seem to have a consensus that this would not be acceptable - then why should the same reasoning not be applied to those few spaces set aside for disabled people?

OpusGiemuJavlo · 04/05/2024 14:38

Justme56 · 04/05/2024 12:13

I’d be asking what their safety concerns are. If they are implying that the women they work with are not safe to be around in the changing rooms this is a serious accusation to make and it should be investigated.

Don't forget that "disagreeing with my belief system" is the worst kind of violence according to the Holy Church of the Gender Woo. Unless the employer has vigorous expunged and reeducated all non-believers you could end up sharing a changing room with someone who Doesn't Believe!

CocoapuffPuff · 04/05/2024 14:13

Rightsraptor · 04/05/2024 09:18

I'd hand them their P45 for being a PITA.

This.

Keeptoiletssafe · 04/05/2024 14:10

Definition of safe:
protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.

Advocating for a private mixed sex changing space goes against safeguarding due to all the associated risks.

The fact that people in disabled toilets already are exposed to increased risk is the thing that’s shameful already.

Trulyme · 04/05/2024 13:50

Why does your place of work need changing rooms for the staff?

At my place of work we sometimes choose to change clothes (eg gym wear) but we do it in the toilets which are unisex anyway.

It depends why this person needs to change at work, to depend on the outcome.

If it’s choice then you don’t need to do anything about it.

If they have to change, then just take the signs down or just take the sign from the men’s one down, then they can’t be offended.

Bollindger · 04/05/2024 13:44

You said female body.
So really what this person's means is, they know they are not male, so are scared to change in that room.
By changing in the female, they are admitting they know the truth.
So tell your boss the only option is to provide a new room...
How ever there is a f you option....
Which ever room is free gets shut for 5 mins to let this person change alone...
Hope you have more women than men, and they object.

ditalini · 04/05/2024 13:34

Just get head of facilities or whatever to write them a letter assuring them that as an inclusive organisation, the female changing room includes non binary people assigned female at birth, and the male changing room includes non binary people assigned male at birth.

I'm assuming "unsafe" is code for not affirmed enough, but if it's more than that then obviously that should be investigated.

QueenBitch666 · 04/05/2024 13:23

Attention seeking shite. Non binary doesn't exist

dragonscannotswim · 04/05/2024 13:08

Are they male or female??

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/05/2024 13:07

Why do they have to change at work? Is it a legal requirement of your workplace , like haz mat suits, or just convenience if you don’t want to wear a uniform outside work?

They could change at home ( what into?) because that is presumably both ‘safe’ and ‘non binary’.

GardenCherisher · 04/05/2024 13:00

You can't just relabel the Men's anyway, as I imagine any Muslim male employees - the more devout/conservative ones who don't shake hands with women and wear long sleeved tops and trousers all year round - may not be too chuffed.
And religion is legally a protected characteristic.

I'd have a meeting with them and HR (esp. anyone sensible with a legal background), get them to do as much talking as possible, say nothing yourself, and take it from there. With any luck the issue may evaporate...

crockofshite · 04/05/2024 12:54

viques · 04/05/2024 12:25

Well we all know in hindsight what being kind and sharing has done for women and previously safe spaces for women, are you suggesting that disabled people should also be grateful to have their spaces hijacked share too?

It's not an ideal solution but might shut down the non binary person for a bit. Sounds like one person at this work place is making a (fucking stupid) point. I don't agree with pandering to this bollox either. It's just an idea. I wish they'd all go away.