Are you voting in the next general election purely on the transgender issue?

It doesn't matter what terms we use, TRAs will attempt to corrupt them. They are semantics vampires. They know what the words mean - applying different meanings is a deliberate strategy to create confusion, making it impossible for the general public to understand what is going on so that they give up trying.
So don't bother changing your language for "clarity". Rather, keep on using words according to their established meanings.

Perhaps the term toilets based on biological sex. A mouthful but clearer?

Just to add that this is their mission statement and not their manifesto. Guess we’ll wait and see what their manifesto includes for this year. In the 2019 manifesto they committed to ‘reforming the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to introduce self-declaration for transgender people’ and ‘for schools to deliver mandatory LGBT+ inclusive relationships and sex education’.

And the next thing we know, in about a years time, the Oxford Dictionary App will say “single sex” can mean mixed sex/unisex.

I suppose the ‘uni’ in unisex was already a wedge.

Yes, I know single sex toilets are on the government's agenda. But on the news (not sure which channel) a guest commentator said that Kemi Badenoch had announced banning single sex toilets. I kid you not, she did. Then went on to call this right wing. A guest called Crystal (male, blond, pouty) said banning 'single sex' toilets was dangerous for trans and NBs - so I finally realised that 'single sex' is now being used for 'unisex'. This cannot be anything other than an attempt to hide what the TRAs are wanting by suggesting the government is banning the very thing most of us prefer by hijacking 'single sex' to mean 'all sexes' or 'unisex'. Very underhand.

They aren't banning single sex toilets. They are making new places have them. Toilets based on sex not gender.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Winning an election by promising a kind of Brexit that wasn't in their power to deliver is what the Tories did. Maybe Labour would have won if they'd done the same thing, but they still wouldn't have been able to deliver it.

The options on the table never changed from the pre-referendum negotiations until the deal was done. Soft Brexit with the four freedoms, or hard Brexit with a headache over the Irish border.

And all Labour really needed to say was 'we support Brexit and will get a socialist Brexit' and they would have got in - because they only just lost. The re-nationalisation of utilities (though difficult to do) was popular as also re-nationalising railways.

This is from Bill Maher. Not directly relevant to toilets. However an insight in to how far ‘the left’ have gone. And I’ve no doubt in the UK, it will get much worse when Labour are in power.

https://www.newsweek.com/bill-maher-pedophiles-hollywood-viral-video-1892498

Confused this morning to learn that the government is banning 'single sex' toilets. I thought they were promoting this. Turns out the newest twist is that 'single sex' is the new 'gender neutral' or 'unisex', and that this is being banned although we all know that women are not at risk in such toilets and it safeguards trans and NBs. Also learned that wanting separate sex toilets is right-wing. The world is turned upside down.

@YesHesAPlonker
’ I watched it become enthralled with identity politics, queer theory, antisemitism, misogyny. The drive for purity of thought and "if you don't agree with us on THIS (whatever) then you don't belong with us.

The political left has lost its moral compass. It now requires total obedience to an ideology..’

💯

@YesHesAPlonker couldn’t agree more, as perfectly encapsulated by Billy Bragg with his moronic take that the problem with JK’s gc views is the people who are on the same side as her.

Well said.

It's like when you realize a particular media source, like the Guardian, that you trusted, is actually deliberately leaving out important information or discourse that it doesn't find politically expedient.

The issue is not just, or even mainly just, that you disagree on the specific issue. You can disagree about an issue in a fair and open way.

It's that you now wonder - what else are they being dishonest about, what other story are they trying to manipulate, or bury?

This is a really important point. It's not just about Labour's stance on women's rights, it's about their attitudes and behaviours. I can forgive them being wrong about mixed sex spaces much more easily than I can forgive the bullying of Rosie Duffield and other GC women, and the sheer intolerance of dissenting views.

Yes. I will vote on this issue mostly. However, as Keir Starmer is my MP, I doubt it will make any difference here. I'm hoping that KJK is going to stand against him

I think this gets close to my concern about Labour (and I was a member for most of my adult life - nearly 40yrs)

I watched it become enthralled with identity politics, queer theory, antisemitism, misogyny. The drive for purity of thought and "if you don't agree with us on THIS (whatever) then you don't belong with us.

The political left has lost its moral compass. It now requires total obedience to an ideology- it is so easily manipulated.

I'm not sure it's a good thing to have a party skewed to the youngest voting demographic, anyway.

I was canvassing in the run-up to the last GE in 2019. Every day we were issued with more and more desperate policy promises issued from party HQ that we were supposed to read out on doorsteps in order to persuade people to vote Labour. It was a joke and we all knew (including my MP) that there was no way a Labour government could honour those pledges. Voters were laughing at us and we couldn't blame them. It was November, they were opening the front door and letting the heat of their homes and we were keeping them standing there for five minutes while we read out 20 or more Labour pledges, many of them made up on the hoof. It made me realise that nothing even the most sincere MP or party supporter tells you can be relied on.

I've been canvassing with my Labour MP three times in recent weeks. The youngest person there was the MP, early 50s. The rest of us were over 60, several over 70. Friends in other constituencies, notably cities with large numbers of student activists, report the same — hardly anyone under 40, let along young activists. I'm a member of my Women's Branch (about 20 of us, 75%+ of us over 50, no one under 35). At big CLP meetings when we get 100+ people turning up, I don't recall more than a handful of people under 25 ever attending — and they only came because they wanted to get our MP deselected for saying something they didn't approve of.

Are you a party member? Do you actually go meetings? Your version of the Labour Party is very different to my experience.

Not really , I’ll be voting labour for many other reasons too

I met a very pleasant older Corbyn type at a PCC count a few days back. We probably had nothing in common but were able to agree that for both of us a Starmer Government was both unknown and worrying. He happily confirmed that gender ideology was awful. He had no idea how his party could have got things so dangerously wrong.

It does not matter what your politics are. Whether you believe in high tax or low. Whether you are vote leave or remain. Whether you think that Corbyn is king or that Boris is the second coming of Christ. Whatever. People with two X chromosomes are women. In some circumstances they are weaker and need protection. If they are to compete fairly they need their own sport. Almost everyone knows this. Far too many, for whatever reason, won't admit it.

I think the question is not whether Starmer is trustworthy, but whether I and others trust him. Starmer presents a great unknown. Sex vs gender ought to be simple. Of course vulnerable women and girls ought to be able to access single sex spaces. He does not seem able to say this loud and clear. Why not? This is the reason I can't trust him.

@EasternStandard Labour’s strength is its huge number of young and keen activists. Compared to the Tory party who are lucky if they can muster half a dozen octogenarians to drop leaflets in each ward. Unfortunately, these activists need regular care and attention, which involves dropping them morsels of their particular ideological obsessions - the latest of which is alphabet soup rights. Starmer needs to keep them on board until the election. When he painfully has to admit some nonsense like some women have a penis or whatever in a TV interview, he obviously doesn’t believe it, he knows no one in the country believes it, but he does need to say it to keep those bright-eyed and bushy-tailed activists, many of whom still mourn the loss of Comrade Corbyn, on board.

Watch as these ‘policies’ sink without trace after the election.

So everything Starmer says on TV, media etc is just random witterings and not to be trusted or considered Labour Party policy?

ok….