Billy Bragg getting challenged in the Observer

there are many more men (and women) who are followers of the alt-right fundamentalists who are using the narrative of protecting children, or of concern for women's rights to mask their bigotry.

No one is specifically disagreeing with this.

We are disagreeing with the conclusion that the "narrative of protecting children", as you call it, is therefore inherently wrong.

I personally think protecting children is very important. Crucial, even.

You would hope that people might look at the US and see where “pick a side and ignore all reasoned argument” gets you -division, rancour and stalemate.

I know he wouldn't show quite as much respect to a female journalist who was GC than he did to this Male Journo.

He's a washed up, has been, sexist Marxist who desperate to stay relevant.

He’s just a busker who got lucky. Without the politics, he would have been strumming the Streets of London outside Woolworths

By the same token, though, there are people who camapign against Israel and make it the focus of all their political critcism without actually being aware or knowledgeable ( or reasoned) about the wider contexts, or of the history of anti semitism, let alone the specific policies of any one specific Israeli government. They are simply 'against Israel' because that is the position of Leftist tribes.

Bragg is partaking in common leftist positions, not through understanding, but through tribal loyalty and the emotional feel good vibes he gets from supposedly being on the right side of the table/history.

The cynical self-interested numbnut is in full reverse ferret mode, this is the first stage.

What an unforgivably toxic little misogynist.

If your critical thinking skills are not well honed, picking a side and shutting your ears to debate is the way you go I suppose. Interesting to see the desire for “relevancy” acknowledged. AKA how can I make myself fashionable to the youth? I know! By pitching in on something I don’t understand and dumping on those old Karens! Go Billy!

It's well-known (in "gender critical" circles) that many people from all political persuasions and religious/atheist viewpoints don't believe that everyone has a gender identity. This means that, inevitably, some far right etc people will share the views that many liberals also hold that transwomen are not women.

It's also well-known in the same circles that, until recently, most liberal press/media wouldn't explore this issue through any lens other than an affirmation that "trans people are who they say they are".

As more organisations like the Guardian and BBC start to publish information about the harms relating to gender identity belief, the wider public will also have more visibility of the nuances that Billy Bragg, and others like him, either can't or won't see.

Do you not feel embarrassed banging on a about a $15k donation 8 years ago, to a radfem group on another continent?

How much public money has been ploughed into UK trans advocacy groups in that time? Millions.

Bragg has shown himself to be an idiot drawing these weak connections and relying on guilt by association. Maybe don't rush to join him?

What a dimwit.

Billy doing his "The nazis used maths to develop technology to do bad stuff. Helen Joyce has a Phd in maths-ergo, Helen is a nazis". Is he really that thick?

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/30/the-far-right-co-option-of-the-transgender-rights-issue/

Billy's "wrong side of the table" argument is no different than the argument of those who try to silence any legitimate protest against Israeli policy by lumping all criticism of Israel and all concern for the rights and wellbeing of Palestinians, as having sympathies with Nazis and antisemites. What would he say to someone who pointed out he's on the same side of the table as neo Nazi, because neither of them are likely to be fans of Netenyahu?

Some people have reasoned, evidence-based concerns about an ideology that defines womanhood away from its material, biological, objectively quantifiable characteristics. These people oppose policies based on that ideology, because such policies recklessly cause risk, harm, and disadvantage to women, by depriving them of single-sex spaces, and to children by subjecting them to experimental and irreversible medical interventions including sterilisation and the prevention of maturity.

Other people think men and women should live according to strict gender roles, that lipstick and high heels and helplessness are all inherent parts of femaleness, that men and only men should be big and strong and never cry, and that homosexuality is sinful and icky and shouldn't be allowed.

These are not the same people. Anyone who still thinks they are, must be an idiot.

Agreed on all counts

Yesssssss. That's quite the broad brush to determine what is meant by an "anti-gender"/"anti-trans movement".
It sounds meaningless.

It's a pointless (disingenuous?) as co-opting Hitler's views on concentration camps in to the aims of an "animal rights movement" because Hitler was vegetarian.

Eg

in 2016, the radical feminist organisation, the Women’s Liberation Front (WoLF), accepted a $15,000 donation from the religious freedom giant, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF). Its European branch is known as ADF International and has an office in London.
ADF has worked on a range of cases attacking women’s reproductive rights. These included helping to ban ‘buffer zones’ around abortion clinics, claiming that they forced protestors to shout at women attending reproductive healthcare appointments. It had also acted in favour of a ban on so-called ‘partial-birth abortions’ and supported the Hobby Lobby franchise in its legal bid not to cover women’s contraception in its employee healthcare plan. This is not an organisation with a track record of allying to radical feminist causes. And yet, here it was, giving $15,000 of its vast resources to support the ‘Women’s Liberation Front’.

I'm not saying any of this discredits the sound arguments for single-sex spaces, or for robust safeguards for children. All I'm saying is don't pretend it's a fiction, as was suggested by a pp.

From the article:

"Neil Datta, secretary of the European Parliamentary Forum for Sexual and Reproductive Rights (EPF) presented findings from an EPF analysis of the financial statements of over 50 ‘anti-gender’ organisations. Datta explained that ‘anti-gender’ is a term used in this context to mean something broader than anti-choice: it includes being against the right to abortion, against LGBT rights, against children’s rights and against equality overall."

Other than the specific issues of the impact on women (female people) from replacing sex-based concepts, rights and language with mixed-sex gender identities, and the damage to children of unquestioningly promoting social and medical transition, gender critical feminists would agree with the targets of these "anti gender" agents not align with the agents.

Can you please list the gender critical feminist groups that are being funded by these alt right groups?

perfect!

That's also why I think the US government wants to shut down MN because it can't control it.

Wait, what!?

Rich older white dood who's at the top of the "oppressor" pyramid tries to launder his privilege and gain some relevance by indulging in sanctimonious performative allyship that just so happens to allow him to manifest some world class misogyny at the same time.

Win-win for the tuneless bawbag.

No, I wouldn't include everyone. https://www.aidsmap.com/news/may-2021/whos-financing-anti-gender-movement-europe

‘If we're expected to be critical of the pro-Palestine marches because some are funded and supported by antisemites, I can't see why the anti-trans movement shouldn't be exposed to the same criticisms.’

Ah the famous far right funding that TRAs never show any evidence of.

Unfortunately there will always be bad actors. But what is the "anti-trans movement"? Can you give examples?

Presumably this doesn't include people who are speaking out to protect women's rights and children's safeguarding because they refuse to accept trans people's belief that "we all have a gender identity" as if it were factual truth. That's no more anti-trans than me being an atheist is Christianphobic or Islamophbic. Thankfully Christians and Muslims aren't demanding that I accept the "one true god" as fact in laws and policies in the same way as trans people do e.g. when we're told to accept transwomen (men who state a belief that they are women) in women's sports and spaces.

The dinner party from hell.

That may be true for some, but there are many more men (and women) who are followers of the alt-right fundamentalists who are using the narrative of protecting children, or of concern for women's rights to mask their bigotry.

As for the idea that fundamentalists or/and the alt right agreeing is simply a notion, rather than a fact I find a tad disingenuous.

If we're expected to be critical of the pro-Palestine marches because some are funded and supported by antisemites, I can't see why the anti-trans movement shouldn't be exposed to the same criticisms.