'Chestfeeding' to be banned in NHS crackdown

I understand that enabling men to feed babies drug induced lactate is not allowed in the NHS as it is experimental ie not beneficial and potentially harmful to the baby ( so any NHS Dr who enables can face GMC action). I am linked to a group that has been doing NHS Fois on this- so far none of the Trusts contacted have said they have done it (haven't contacted all of them though) and I understand it is 'against NHS protocols' . However just as the NHS in England is addressing this issue, (though this may halt if Labour get in?) FOIs in Wales NHS Trusts suggest they plan to start it!

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Thank goodness, this is well overdue. I can't believe anyone thought this disgusting nonsense was OK.

Feels like there is finally some sunshine peeking through the clouds!

Common sense and Truth prevails, hurrah!!!

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Linking an excellent paper which clearly describes the importance of using clear language for anyone who hasn't seen it.
A very useful paper.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full

I'd add, should a trans man be diagnosed with breast cancer really which is the more traumatic word to hear? Breast or cancer?

Should breast cancer services change all the language for fear of upsetting the occasional woman who deludes herself she is a man? While actual men who get breast cancer just get on with it?

Should all the literature, patient information, academic studies erase the word breast so as not to upset someone who doesn't like the word?

And substituting the word chest would be very dangerous and misleading. How to describe a locally advanced breast cancer infiltrating the chest wall? It all gets very silly.

An ideological reason, Jesus! I don’t accept for a single moment that telling the TRUTH by calling a breast a breast will destroy anyone. If being pregnant and giving birth, the most female thing anyone can do doesn’t destroy her then calling her a woman and her breast just that won’t destroy her either. It’s just more gaslighting,

I should have made myself more clear @OpusGiemuJavlo

On a one to one basis when giving care HCPs can and should use language the patient prefers. Just as they do in other situations with other patients.

However in the wider context of the NHS, patient information publications, magazine articles and so on it is important to use correct language for the reasons I mentioned.

If I met Freddy McConnell I would adjust my language accordingly.
But in the context of describing how she thought she might still be able to breastfeed the meaning of my words would be lost if the reader thought I was referring to a man.
The same problem applies with newspapers describing criminals as women.

insist on accurate sexed words that are so abhorent to the patient that she rejects the help on offer to the detriment of her own health and the health of her baby
Does this really happen? I mean, this hypothetical woman has just given birth and is about to breastfeed (whatever the word used to describe the process).
Will she really implode at the use of the word "breast"? I get that they want the language changed to that of their choice, (of course they bloody do) but I doubt the repercussions of not doing so are at all as extreme as is touted.
Compare it with the distress of women having to collude with this and find themselves in the farcical situation of not being allowed to talk about breastfeeding with an actual breastfeeding counsellor; why should the 1% (or less) be accommodated at the expense of the vast majority?

Sex-neuttal language does nothing to benefit transwomen - as you say if a male is fetishising the concept of himself with breasts then he doesn't want it anyway. It helps the women whose belief system you don't share. Plurality of beliefs is ok.

A health worker whose job is to support lactation and help new mums to breastfeed cannot be expected to dispell all the power of Stonewall, resolve the internalised misogyny and homophobia in the young woman in front of her, and enable her to accept herself as female. That worker can either use sex-neutral language and thus be able to help the woman and her baby to breastfeed successfully, or can insist on accurate sexed words that are so abhorent to the patient that she rejects the help on offer to the detriment of her own health and the health of her baby.

And if any of you really can't understand that I am not supporting this as something to be forced on all women, just for the tiny number that need it, and not for any men whatsoever, you must be really hard of thinking.

There's a real lack of critical thinking in the Coppafeel camp - this article is the most recent thing they have posted on Twitter, and it talks about a breast cancer charity encouraging people to check their chests. FFS

https://www.creativebrief.com/bite/fuel-your-imagination/coppafeel-brand-refresh-aims-to-reach-a-new-generation/

It also helps men who want to dose themselves with a cocktail of drugs and "feed" a baby the resulting exudate to co-opt breastfeeding for themselves. Because funnily enough when it comes to men, actual MEN, "feeding" a baby, suddenly they are more than happy to discuss their breasts and claim that they are breastfeeding

Yes this is exactly right.

It's not a "slippery slope" to help all women, even the delusional ones who think they are men. Feminism that excludes males because they aren't female is perfectly reasonable but feminism that excludes females for any reason (including that they are delusional) is not.

It is actually a slippery slope to harming all women who might want to breastfeed at some point in their lives, especially those who have gender confusion.

Widespread use of the words "chest feeding" means less exposure to the concept of breastfeeding. This is likely to further reduce breastfeeding rates, with both women and their male partners finding the whole concept alien.

It feeds into the euphemistic use of the phrase "top surgery" with these women being completely ignorant (in some cases) of the fact that they are signing up to a bilateral mastectomy and loss of the ability to feed their baby should they have one in the future.

Freddy McConnell, the "seahorse dad" who failed to persuade the courts to allow her to be listed as the father of the babies she has given birth to on their birth certificates, is in record as being surprised that she didn't produce any breastmilk and sad that she could not breastfeed.

Yes I am using correct sex pronouns. It is simply not appropriate to do otherwise when discussing birth and breastfeeding.

It also helps men who want to dose themselves with a cocktail of drugs and "feed" a baby the resulting exudate to co-opt breastfeeding for themselves. Because funnily enough when it comes to men, actual MEN, "feeding" a baby, suddenly they are more than happy to discuss their breasts and claim that they are breastfeeding.

Maternal and child health are too important and there is no kindness in polluting language so that no one knows what sex a person feeding their baby is or how they are doing it.

@JellySaurus I was very clear that for everyone other than females who want to identify out of womanhood, language should be clear, unambiguous and use sex specific words without erasing real womanhood.

The number of women who need sex-neutral language is tiny but it is a genuine need, so language that a transman can relate to certainly shouldn't be the default but should br available when needed.

I feel so sad about where Coppafeel has ended up. They were an amazing support for a young colleague who had breast cancer and sadly passed away. They've lost their vision here in the pursuit of #inclusivity and #bekind.

@Dineasair "treating her mental issues properly" will take years, possibly decades and the waiting lists for mental health services are enormous. If you'd rather not help a new mum to get her baby latching on and suckling because of your idealogical objection to avoiding the word "breast" which will traumatise and upset her then you would be exceptionally unethical and shouldn't have that job.

It's not a "slippery slope" to help all women, even the delusional ones who think they are men. Feminism that excludes males because they aren't female is perfectly reasonable but feminism that excludes females for any reason (including that they are delusional) is not.

Health care services should not be limited in ways that make them less accessible to any category of person.

Woman-erasing language makes healthcare less accessible to a huge proportion of the category of person which is 'woman'.

If a woman wants to be related to as anything other than a woman, of course the same healthcare should be available to her as to all women, unjudgementally, in language that she understands and can relate to.

This is our business. Erasing women harms all women - including those who believe themselves not to be women.

And for the avoidance of all doubt, woman = adult human female.

As TRA posts on these boards go, this ones particularly transparent 🤣

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I know, the most female thing any woman can do ffs. If a calling her a woman is so dangerous for her then why the hell did she get pregnant in the first place? Pandering to this is what brought us to where we are.

Jesus! Words fail me. That doesn’t matter, it needs to be called out as an outrageously selfish and dangerous thing to do because it is a potentially harmful experiment on infants and it need to be banned.

Nope, still disagree, this was a crucial part of the slippery slope that got us here in the first place, and led to men being allowed to suckle infants, it’s still validating and perpetuating a lie. If a woman who is living as a man and has gotten pregnant, the most female thing a woman can do, then helping her to deny her own biological reality helps nobody in the long run, far better to treat her mental health issues properly than to validate her delusion.

The problem with someone with the ethics of Victor Frankenstein having any influence in medical circles, is that whenever any consequences of their dabbling/experiments come to light, they bloody run off.

Health care services should not be limited in ways that make them less accessible to any category of person.

Whilst I agree in principle, it's not that easy.

Trans ideology is sexist, homophobic and dangerous, particularly to women and girls.

Using language that perpetuates it isn't a neutral act. It certainly shouldn't be NHS policy, written into their literature, etc.

On an individual basis, one-to-one, yes. After all, I'm sure HCPs change their language all the time depending on who they're talking to.

I agree that if there are some women who will not access the services it should be addressed. But not by accommodating the ideology.