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David Bell in today's Guardian - great article

32 replies

BonfireLady · 26/04/2024 10:53

I'm not sure if this has been put online by the Guardian (I couldn't see it with a Google search) but there's a fantastic article from David Bell in today's print version. Hopefully legible in this photo.

Lots of different topics covered, including why calling a child "transgender" is harmful and the misrepresentation of a) the number of children and young people on puberty blockers (lots of mainstream press still saying it's fewer than 100) b) regret rates c) suicide ideation and d) the "toxicity" and "culture wars".

I think my Dad is on his way to a full peaking - it's been an interesting journey as he's a brilliant example of a kind, liberal person who values live and let live (like so many others) - he found this when reading the Guardian and made me aware of it. Thanks Dad! ❤️

David Bell in today's Guardian - great article
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BonfireLady · 26/04/2024 19:34

Although it's unfortunate having two threads, it probably just about makes sense to keep this one (I'm happy to ask for a deletion if it doesn't, given this is the second thread).
Here is a sharper copy of the original photo, without me rushing and without the edges chopped off.
I was just so delighted to see it finally being said this clearly in the Guardian (it does indeed sound like a reply to the Freddy article, and possibly also the recent Stephen Whittle opinion piece in the Observer) that I had to share the good news!
For so many people, news isn't news until the Guardian and BBC have said it. It seems like we're moving slowly in the right direction with both.

The full horror of the harm that has been done to so many children and young people is obviously yet to be told 😢 but the shift in what's being reported does lend itself to that story at least having a chance of breaking through now. As a counter-balance, obviously it's good to hear that there are people who are happy with both the outcome of their transition and the clinicians and surgeons who did it (thank you for sharing Butterfly) but the reality is that, for the most part, the children who find themselves believing that they are "in the wrong body" have been pulled towards a belief that does not directly answer their feelings of distress and will lead to irrerversible harm.

David Bell in today's Guardian - great article
OP posts:
EasternStandard · 26/04/2024 19:27

I think David Bell is excellent and the clearest I’ve heard on the fact that ‘trans’ does not apply to children

but I’ll never forgive The Guardian for being so complicit in the harm that is gender ideology

BonfireLady · 26/04/2024 19:23

Apologies that I inadvertently ended up creating a second thread and also mistakenly thought that the online version was from a different day. I was on my way out when my Dad (who is staying with me ATM) passed me the article. I did a quick Google, and a quick check on MN, using the headline and concluded that there was no online version from today's Guardian.

It's interesting seeing the difference between the two. Although the online version has the main points from the printed one, there is a lot more depth - and therefore a more powerful message - in the print version. It's definitely food for thought about what the historical archive will show looking back.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/04/2024 17:30

They've got so far by lying that it must go against the grain for the Guardian to be forced to produce accurate unbiased journalism.
Good to see that there are eventually limits to the lies people can tell.

Floisme · 26/04/2024 17:17

Yup, Julie Bindel has skin in this game too, as the Herd article explains, so it makes sense that she would know.

lanadelgrey · 26/04/2024 17:04

I posted same thought on the other thread about the piece. Bell looks very much like he demanded and got a right of reply. I rather suspect that Bindel - who got a correction to the original piece - is heavily hinting that was the case

Floisme · 26/04/2024 16:53

Apologies if this has already been linked but here's an article about the article (yes I know it's getting complicatedHmm) from Unherd that includes this from Julie Bindel:

'Speaking to UnHerd today, Bindel said, “I know how hard David Bell had to try to get the Guardian to agree to him writing an opinion piece, following his complaints about the Freddy McConnell article. I don’t believe for one minute that the Guardian has decided it has been wrong all along on this issue, but its hand has been forced.”

So maybe not so much a reverse ferret as the Graun being pressured into allowing a right of reply to McConnell's piece? I guess time will tell. Certainly it might explain the curious truncation of the online version.
https://unherd.com/newsroom/the-guardian-publishes-article-defending-cass-report/

The Guardian publishes article defending Cass Report

In a remarkable shift, The Guardian has published an opinion piece in defence of the Cass Report, written by a psychiatrist who revealed malpractice at the Tavistock gender clinic. David Bell’s article claims that Hillary Cass’s review of youth gender...

https://unherd.com/newsroom/the-guardian-publishes-article-defending-cass-report

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 15:44

Zebracat · 26/04/2024 14:44

@ButterflyHatched thank you for the article, and the letters that followed. However, I really don’t feel ms Wren is the victim here.

As she was the person who directly oversaw the vast majority of my assessment and treatment during my time at GIDS, I am horrified at the way she has been villified. There is not a single person on Earth who I owe more to nor respect for her reasoned and measured professional conduct at the most difficult time in my life.

Zebracat · 26/04/2024 14:44

@ButterflyHatched thank you for the article, and the letters that followed. However, I really don’t feel ms Wren is the victim here.

Mavenss · 26/04/2024 14:24

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 26/04/2024 11:42

Thanks OP. Fantastic article.

My thought at the end of it was 'Absolutely - and the Guardian has very much been guilty of creating the atmosphere where people were scared of speaking up about the medical and social scandal unfolding'.

I would really like the Guardian to apologise for that. They did not apply acceptable standards of journalistic integrity on this topic - as those women journalists forced out will attest to.

Absolutely. The media, politicians, journalists, celebrity, organisations. They all need to accept they were wrong and apologise for the sometimes grave harm to which they have contributed.

Helleofabore · 26/04/2024 14:18

Thanks Bonfire. That is a very interesting read and interesting to see how it has been treated by the Guardian.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/04/2024 14:15

That's such a good article from someone at the heart of the Tavistock and with a real insider's view of the catastrophe that was GIDs. The revelations of the safeguarding fails from the Sonia Appleby case still resonate. Thank heavens it's now closed.
Despite all the efforts by the adult trans lobbyists, it's becoming evident that placing the new centres in Children's hospitals with their standards of research & evidenced healthcare that all other children receive, was a genius move.
No more adults insisting that their personal anecdotes /wishes /beliefs take priority over the safety and wellbeing of vulnerable children. The multi disciplinary teams and awareness of the levels of social grooming of children will hopefully ensure that there's no place for these lobbyists. Although they're not going without a fight as we can see.

OldCrone · 26/04/2024 13:57

RiotAndAlarum · 26/04/2024 12:48

What this actually means is that a more complete version - presumably with more, and more detailed - criticism would not be available online, as that is the "content" which ends up being taken up in any "viral" reaction AND being archived for the future.

The archive is particularly important, as that is (a) the record which readers and researchers will draw from and (b) the searchable record (because the print version, even if someone scans it, effectively only becomes a picture, and not a searchable one unless it's tagged.

It's quite a big deal to have print and a (n archived) digital versions of an article be very different. In the future, we will need to know what was known and what was printed, in order to be able to explain our history and politics.

The two versions look almost identical to me (as far as I can tell from the photo in the OP).

Reallybadidea · 26/04/2024 13:51

The reverse ferreting has begun then

SidewaysOtter · 26/04/2024 13:46

Bloody rich of the Graun to be talking about this when they’ve towed the TRA line for years, including the employment of LOJ and allowing Hayley Friedman and Suzanne Moore to be hounded out.

Trying to cling onto the perceived moral high ground regardless, even as a Cass-shaped earthquake upends the landscape Hmm

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2024 13:42

I'd recommend reading Bernadette Wren's insightful words on the subject from 2021, given that unlike Bell, she actually had a direct role in the department in question:

Bernadette Wren · Diary: Epistemic Injustice (lrb.co.uk)

Bernadette Wren · Diary: Epistemic Injustice

If a whistle-blowing report on the Gender Identity Development Service at the Tavistock Clinic was needed, I wish I’d...

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n23/bernadette-wren/diary

nauticant · 26/04/2024 13:28

It looks like now The Guardian has spoken it's socially acceptable to come out against the sterilisation of children:

https://twitter.com/lindasgrant/status/1783788727719825611

SinnerBoy · 26/04/2024 13:13

A graceful admission from the Graun would not come amiss.

Are those pigs in the sky?

duc748 · 26/04/2024 13:06

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 26/04/2024 11:42

Thanks OP. Fantastic article.

My thought at the end of it was 'Absolutely - and the Guardian has very much been guilty of creating the atmosphere where people were scared of speaking up about the medical and social scandal unfolding'.

I would really like the Guardian to apologise for that. They did not apply acceptable standards of journalistic integrity on this topic - as those women journalists forced out will attest to.

Same thought went through my mind, and no doubt they will receive a few letters from people making just those points. A graceful admission from the Graun would not come amiss.

RiotAndAlarum · 26/04/2024 12:48

RandySavage · 26/04/2024 11:53

“they filleted the paper article to create that shorter piece on the website”

That makes no sense. Are they worried they’re going to run out of internet?

What this actually means is that a more complete version - presumably with more, and more detailed - criticism would not be available online, as that is the "content" which ends up being taken up in any "viral" reaction AND being archived for the future.

The archive is particularly important, as that is (a) the record which readers and researchers will draw from and (b) the searchable record (because the print version, even if someone scans it, effectively only becomes a picture, and not a searchable one unless it's tagged.

It's quite a big deal to have print and a (n archived) digital versions of an article be very different. In the future, we will need to know what was known and what was printed, in order to be able to explain our history and politics.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/04/2024 12:18

Another thread about the online version of the article

David Bell in the Guardian www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5062591-david-bell-in-the-guardian

SinnerBoy · 26/04/2024 12:15

Abra1t · Today 10:59

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/26/cass-review-gender-identity-services-report

Thanks for posting that, it was informative in more ways than one. I know the Observer has been publishing balanced articles on the subject, but it seems to be a first for the actual Guardian to have published one so wholly critical. I wonder if they've reached a turning point, where GC voices are not only tolerated, but allowed to publish their opinions in it?

They did have the letters last week, of course, but to have commissioned a column seems promising.

Floisme · 26/04/2024 12:08

Thanks op.

Does this mean I have to pay them money to read it in full?

RandySavage · 26/04/2024 11:53

“they filleted the paper article to create that shorter piece on the website”

That makes no sense. Are they worried they’re going to run out of internet?

Zebracat · 26/04/2024 11:46

It was a fabulous article. I am glad the Guardian published it. Think the jig is up.