If only trans ideologues had the foresight to not used preexisting words for their ideas around gender, lots of these problem wouldnt exist.

But, as we all know the sex being different to gender is only a recent idea in this context. Its only a few years ago that the term transsexual fell out of use. The GRA wouldnt make sense - allowing people to aquire a new gender, then a new sex on their birth certificate, if sex and gender were clearly distinct.

If trans ideology was about the difference between sex and gender, no one wouldnt want their sex markers changed on id. It would be priority to introduce gender markers alongside sex markers.

Well yes. But I guess that's because their experience is one of feeling they have a "gender identity" and should be the opposite sex.

I find it really hard to navigate. On one hand I totally support biological fact. But on the other I'm not in the business of imposing my world view on others. For example I have no religion (truly - not even atheist, it's not a thing for me) amd I don't go round insisting anyone who believes in god is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to prioritise their belief as an important part of who they are.

I see the transgender debate the same way. Which is why I'm OK with using pronouns etc.

Miriam obviously must have "passed" relatively well (to a male eye at least) because the show wouldn't have worked if the contestants had clocked h++ as male. It's weird though because in the picture in the OP Miriam does look quite masculine if you ignore all the paraphernalia intended to signal womanhood. I guess back in 2003 "trans" was not really on the agenda in the UK and for most people the idea of a TW was an obvious man in a dress rather than someone who had been on puberty blocking drugs since childhood. I do think if this program was aired today the audience may have clocked h++ as male.* *

Which brings us right back to this whole problem exists because TRAs insist we use the same words (man/woman/he/she etc) to mean two different things.

If sex and gender are different there is no, absolutely no, logical or moral reason to use the same name for both. All it does it generate division, bad feeling and antagonism.

It is the direct and only reason we have so many socially difficult and politically dangerous problems about which "women" are meant in any given context, problems that never needed to happen, the cause of so much anger, fear and distrust that never needed to arise.

It's a very clear difference of opinion depending on what position one takes.

If one takes the GC position of "there is no such thing as gender" then you are correct that it's correctly sexing.

If one takes the position there is such a thing as gender, and its an important facet of someone's identity, then Butterfly is correct it is misgendering.

And in fact these aren't statements that are exclusive of each other - one can recognise it is correctly sexing and also misgendering.

What, you mean old Rudy Dench? Can't believe he's still getting away with it....

DH and I talked about this when we watched Ripley, in which an ostensibly male character is played by a biological woman (not a spoiler, it's irrelevant to the plot). I instantly clocked the actor as female: there wasn't even a moment of doubt. DH said that he felt there was something odd but wasn't sure. I couldn't believe it - it was so obvious to me.

as others have pointed out: it is correctly sexing. And it is not wrong.

Don't be so patronising/disingenuous (delete as necessary)

I agree the entirety of the show was exploitative and immoral. But on both sides. If people want to be accepted, they have to be truthful. There is no way, even now, that if 6 blokes were told they were competing for a date with a woman, who turned out not to be a woman, it would be the same. Lying is never a good look.

Sex by deception is a crime isn’t it? I. This case set up by the TV company. What an evil thing they did.

In my opinion the transwoman was not to blame, but manipulated and used. Poor thing, what a tragedy.

Some people are more observant than others, some people need to be.

Im not convinced any man can pass for a woman in every situation. No one may notice someone on a bus, but in women only setting and when talking about women only experiences it will become more obvious.

But who knows, maybe judy dench has been fooling everyone for years?

That's what I thought.

There are two trans actors I've seen recently who I wouldn't clock as male too - one in a show called "Last King of the Cross" and one in "Baby Reindeer".

I often think about how adamant posters on here are that no TW could be mistaken for women and I just don't believe that's true.

That was the whole premise of Miriams show and why it ended up being such a car crash

No, Nadia did not come out on the show to the other housemates. The viewers knew she was trans.

Yeah I vaguely recall that. In comparing the two, I never saw TSAMM, but I think the big difference is that Nadia wasn't particularly sexualised. People could go on BB, not be presented much in that way, and still do very well. Whereas Miriam was there entirely as a subject of romantic interest.

Ah, OK. It was across the board at that time. I know someone who worked on BB5 and there was a lot not shown on the live feed too.

Yes I’m aware.

It was a comment on what was done generally in tv production at that time.

YouTube happened to show Ho’s exit interview after the clip I looked for and I watched that

Those are two entirely different series of BB.

Amazing!

I couldn’t recall Nadia so I looked up a clip and it was a lot of yelling after a food fight. Then an exit interview with someone called Jo who was horrific towards someone called Shilpa

They showed clips of bullying and racism that looks pretty shocking now, it really was a bravado time in tv production

It's interesting to wonder if she would win now or not.

I was reading yesterday that she insisted on "controlling the narrative" when she went in there and I wonder how much that had to do with how the audience perceived her.

Bigly Brother

Different recollections does not negate the truth though.

Nadia was always having to perform being a woman. The showering in heels was irritating, if Nadia was a woman then Nadia wouldn't have had to keep pretending.

I initially felt for Nadia as thought life must have been hard to feel the need for a sex change but the falseness soon got on my nerves.

Never watched again after the terrible audience manipulation.

Thats what lots of people forget about reality tv, the audience is manipulated as much as, maybe more than, the contestants are.

'Recollections may differ' was a diplomatic swipe at someone talking bollocks if I remember correctly...