The Grauniad on a damaging “reality” show

Of course "Trans healthcare" is another of those weasel phrases.

One would assume "trans healthcare" means dealing with the health issues suffered by trans people.

In the case of puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and "affirmation" surgery, it actually means inducing health issues in previously healthy bodies in an attempt to resolve mental distress.

Really the phrase "Trans healthcare" should be reserved for dealing with the health issues that arise from these interventions, the healthcare needs arising because one is trans, rather than the interventions themselves.

Puberty blockers are being rebranded as "endocrine support" I see.

Just going to say that the placebo effect is real.

A fantastic article was written on this. Butters won’t read it though and consider any self reflection as to whether it applies to Butters:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9886596/

You have to wonder about the mindset of anyone who considers differently.

Everything that leant towards bypassing ethical research standards, child safeguarding, the premise of “first do no harm” then doubling down on it despite the ongoing harm and consistently clear indication of a lack of evidence of benefit is evil.

Children have been and continue to be irrevocably harmed.

I'm sorry but I refuse to lie about one of the treatments that have been instrumental in positively affecting my quality of life, and I refuse to demonise those who compassionately allowed me to access them.

I don't care who or when behaved in a completely unethical abhorrent way.

It is clear that they did. That is my point.

And it needs dealing with.

Monsters. All of them.

You don't experiment on children in this way.

You are excusing and trying to enable it. It's disgusting.

you are the worlds first and only truly real telepath - you clearly know what other posters think.

Stop it. you have no idea what people think or do , you just want to parrot the party like that everything anyone on FWR writes, who isn't a TRA, is just transphobic.

Your waffle and dissembling is noted. We have child safeguarding and women's safeguarding (in that order) at heart. You? what is it you want, Butters? Elucidate.

"Do you think that the initial tiny puberty blocker trials for gender incongruent children were about making profit for pharmaceutical companies?"

What clinical trial? If you are referring to the Dutch experiment it was a study. If you are referring to something else it would be great if you could post a link.

Of course you don't care. It's just another untethered thread; another baseless talking point that fails under even cursory consideration.

The chronology here doesn't check out, at all. I'm not trying to defend pharmaceutical companies at all here - their callous and cynical exploitation of suffering is well known - but I am challenging this 'everything associated with trans healthcare is automatically polarised toward pure evil' mindset you seem to be stuck in.

Hopefully there will come a time when the motivation of these adults will be exposed via the Criminal Justice system. At the moment the challenge is to remove these activists away from having any influence over vulnerable children.

However you cut it, there were some very dodgy unethical bastards who decided to try this out on children.

Given the approved uses of these drugs, I have some serious questions about the motivations of the adults that decided to use them on children in this experimental fashion full stop.

The pharmaceutical companies certainly have seen a business opportunity here. I don't know when they decided to formally pursue it.

Frankly I don't care.

Do you think that the initial tiny puberty blocker trials for gender incongruent children were about making profit for pharmaceutical companies?

yep, Butters, Susie Green's TED talk covered that. Her husband didn't like the "gay behaviours" of their son (playing with dolls IIRC) and was therefore happy to trans away the gay.

I'm neither gay nor lesbian and it took me too long to realise how homophobic the TRA movement is. Shockingly long. But bloody hell, once you see it, you can't unsee it.

And sometimes when i see TW from countries which generally have a "typically macho" culture especially with added religious pressures, i do wonder about young gay men and if some of them take the "path of least resistance" or maybe the "path of being able to support my family" etc etc. And i cannot fault the individuals for thinking that.

Wider society for coercing it (even subconsciously)? never.

Everything I said was directly taken from Susie Green’s TED talk. If you can find an error of fact, please state what it is.

I agree that it is vile: vile to castrate your child because you think he’s gay.

Again, I ask, have you listened to or read that talk from Susie Green?

They did not do "their best" by that child.

It is difficult to grasp the promotion of “puberty blockers” when they have never undergone a full clinical trial to discover the possible beneficial or detrimental effect they may have.

Banning their use may provide the pause that is needed for an ethical and impartial test of the medication. This should be performed for any medication which is currently used for a purpose for which it was not designed. It seems profit for pharmaceutical companies is more important than life threatening side effects.

It is concerning that only now is medicine actually looking a female bodies to observe the many differences to male bodies. Men are not the default human being. Nor are they an authority on women’s lives, thoughts, feelings, beliefs or how we should speak.

needlessly limiting their efficacy

There is no efficacy. You seem familiar with the Cass Report but seem intent on blatantly ignoring the parts that deny your narrative.

People are being unrelentingly awful about a family trying their best to help their daughter within the current limits of technology. The prior policy of restricting access to blockers for under-16's was clearly not fit for purpose since it was needlessly limiting their efficacy for those without favourable genetics or other similar factors like subclinical DSD's - a finding Dr Cass mentioned in her report.

And yet again women are being told what we can and cannot talk about by someone who was born male. Laws of misogyny being demonstrated in real time.

To be clear, I feel sympathy to anyone who suffers any disability, physical or mental, who does not receive the treatment which has been proven by well trained and logical medical practitioners.

Are we talking about Susie Green here?

No fucking chance.
She's the woman who deliberately did everything in her power to remove safeguarding and forced the Tavistock to behave in a way that was abhorrent.

She deserves locking up for that alone.

Monster.

Have you seen Susie Green's Ted talk, or read the transcript of it, Butter?

I have, and in my opinion, MissLucy has summarised it perfectly.