Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?

edited to say Thank you for your answer

It is ok and necessary to criticise political decisions - ones made by Israel and others.
But to then state that one is Anti-Zionist, in fact Anti-Israel as a state, that is something else in my book.

Israel is there. It is a nation state, like most states in the rest of the world now.

I don’t know about how peaceful Hamas and Hezbollah are. Not very, I’d say. And they are the political representation of the palestinians. Sadly.
Very difficult to achieve peace if the stated political goal of your adversary is to wipe you, your people, your culture, your language and your religion off the face of the earth.

I really wish a peaceful solution can be reached. But obviously Hamas would need to tweak their manifesto a little for that to be possible.

The influence of the British, French and later USA in the region particularly after ww1 cannot be underestimated.

It was eye opening to see how little can provoke such a reaction

I’m still finding that Twitter clip with the make a chain chanting unbelievable

It’s beyond normal. What is going on with those people

What I would like to know is why so many are so vocally opposed to the existence of a Jewish state and hold Israel to such high standards (in fact Israel seems to face more criticism than most other countries, even when they do similar things), and yet so few of those same people seem to have energy for the horrors happening elsewhere.

Where are the calls to boycott China for their human rights abuses against Uyghurs? Maybe it's just too inconvenient to go without new phones and plastic gizmos and fast fashion. Maybe it's not the same as boycotting Israel because a trade alliance with China offers more personal benefit.

Where are all the marches for Darfur? Maybe it's just not fashionable to care about African countries. Maybe it's just uncomfortable to draw attention to actions that highlight the Western-centric nature of your framework of race and power dynamics. Maybe it's easier to criticise Israel because lots of Jews look white and lots of Palestinians don't.

Have we grown bored of Ukraine now? I don't see the people in my town demanding justice for the Bucha victims or calling for the West to do more, but they're out in force every weekend waving Palestinian flags and shouting at cars. Maybe Israel is a less scary target than Russia.

Why does anti-Israel sentiment stay in fashion but all the other causes of the moment get forgotten?

I take on board some of the points you make datchery, for example the extremists that try and attach themselves to any march.

Watching a great number of people shouting Nazi and Scum at a London Jew making his own protest at the side of the road, is more than them exhibiting prejudice as you describe anti semitism. I'd call it a clear example of Jew hate.

Yet, it is the Palestinians, who have lived amongst Jewish people for millennia, in peace, that are the crazy ones that "want to wipe the Jews off the map"?????
The difficulties that Jews had in Arab countries (dhimmi status, that sort of thing) long predate Zionism and the foundation of Israel. Settled Jewish communities long predated Islam in many (if not all) of these countries. In fact, there were huge Jewish communities in many Middle Eastern countries in 1945. They were ethnically cleansed, often with theft, violence and murder, post 1948 (and some of the violence and murder predated 1948).

As for anti-Zionism, you're doing well if you can shove a fag-paper between that and anti-semitism in some (probably many, I don't know) Muslim countries. I am familiar with one Muslim country and you can't utter the word 'Jew' in the company of pretty ordinary middle-class Muslims, who are otherwise delightful, social, helpful people, without causing raised eyebrows. I've come across some really rank antisemitism from people there. And make no mistake, it's the Jews who are demonised, not the Israelis or Israel or Zionism or Netanyahu.

So yes, in theory there is a division between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism, but in practice it's actually quite elusive.

I have criticised Israel in the presence of Jewish friends and have never been told that I'm being antisemitic. Which is not surprising, as I'm quite often echoing what they have to say.

You will have extremists at any march tbh- antisemitism is rife in the far right white supremacy marches disguised as 'anti muslim, anti palestinian or anti refugee' they're racist and anti semitic too.

You can be pro Palestinian rights and pro Jewish people. They are not mutually exclusive.

Antisemitism is a form of prejudice against Jewish people based PURELY on their RELIGIOUS beliefs and/or ETHNIC identity.
It goes back thousands of years and is steeped in cruel bias and harmful stereotypes or outright hostility. It's bigotted and created lots of tropes.

Antizionism is the criticism of the POLITICAL ideology of Zionism. This does not inherently involve prejudice against Jewish people, but it criticizes and focuses on political and territorial disputes and military practices, and rights of Palestinians.

Basically one attacks an identify the other a political stance.

I can't ignore that yes some may use antizionism to cover up anti-Semitism, but it is also very dangerous to unfairly label anyone with legitimate criticism of Israeli policies as antisemtic as that deflects or shuts down debate.

It is antisemitic to say "all Jews are responsible for what is going on in Israel"

but similarly and this is why we cannot conflate, it is antisemitic to say "Criticising Israel means you are attacking ALL Jews"

Incidentally, many CHRISTIAN Zionists (quite a few who are OPENLY antisemitic) strongly support Israeli govt policies and actions, and heavily fund them, but for very insidious reasons; using Jewish people as cannon fodder for the End Times- they're happy to see the Jewish people burn or convert. How is that not antisemitic?? Blows my mind how that little detail gets brushed over in debate.

Yet, it is the Palestinians, who have lived amongst Jewish people for millennia, in peace, that are the crazy ones that "want to wipe the Jews off the map"?????

They are definitely linked, even as most of those chanting the slogans remain unaware of that.

Please explain the difference to me. I would genuinely like it to be set out clearly so I can understand.

a student org plan to replicate this in other colleges in the US?
But it is kettling, isn’t it? Denial of access to public space at best?
How can this be ok by the colleges?

why not?

They are not the same.

Thank you for your posts @RebelliousCow
Facts never go amiss.
Apart from everything horrific, it really irks when people are so un- or mis-informed and at the same time so adamant they have «history on their side» or some equally inane crap.

That anti-semitism is on the rise again is truly horrifying. Calling it anti-zionism and actually thinking that makes it a-ok is just breath-takingly ignorant and wicked.

His family were a high status wealthy merchant family. Mot wealthy arabs did not live in the area known as Palestine, but lived in cities such Cairo, Beirut, Aleppo and Damascus. Much of the land of Palestine was either desert or unhospitable swamp - and most arabs who lived there were subsistence farmers or nomadic bedouins.

The problems in the region can be as much attributed to conflict between different arab states, political forces, clans and tribes as it can to the existence of Israel. If there was such great arab solidarity then Lebanon and Syria would have offered citizenship rather than keeping the 'Palestinian' population as second and third generation refugees without civil rights. The UN also has some responsibility for this, though.

That the Palestinian population has been maintained, and even grown, as a refugee population, rather than quickly re-settled, as with most of the world's other refugees, is a politcal decision.

Yes, Arafat was born in Egypt, though his father had been born in Gaza ( it was Egyptian territory). He was a radical 'Baathist' - an arab who believed in a greater, socialist, pan arab state - hence the enmity towards Middle Eastern monarchies ; and in part why British and other Socialists have always been antagonistic towards Israel. Saddam Hussein was a 'Baathist' too ( turned dictator) - which is why George Galloway supported him.

The idea that a Palestinian state would be secular and socialist seems a bit far fetched though, doesn't it?

I counted 7 police officers in the clip - as far as I'm concerned they should have surrounded him to escort him or held up the marchers to create a corridor.

If this isn't possible then it's absolutely not a peaceful protest.

The scariest thing is you just know these thugs genuinely believe themselves to be 'on the right side of history'. Even when they're quite literally copying the exact behaviour of Nazis and white supremacists.

This is true.

Another PP said The police should have escorted the jewish man wherever he wanted to go, and arrested anyone who threatened or attempted violence. If the Jewish man wanted to cross the street back and forth a hundred times/all day in front of the protestors that is his right.

That’s correct in principle, but in reality there’s no way one police officer could have achieved that, and they could both have been injured or killed. I think the officer in this case was trying to keep the peace as best he could, in impossible conditions.

Our right to demonstrate is essential. I’m concerned that the aggression and antisemitism of these marches will end up undermining this democratic right.

This is terrifying, what on earth is their justification for this behaviour. Jewish students must be so scared.

Churchill's "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” keeps going though my mind (I know it's a bastardisation of someone else - can't remember who!) but maybe I make the mistake of assuming people don't want history to be repeated ☹️

some really wonderful posts on this thread, thank you.

Bit odd that Arafat’s Wiki bio states he was born to Palestinian parents in Cairo in 1929 when there was no Palestinian citizens as such.

Wonder who wrote that.

Excellent summary!

The Palestinian flag wasn’t even adopted until AFTER Israel’s inception. Almost 20 years later IIRC. There were no Palestinians. They were known as Arabs.

I read somewhere that Jewish people bought up a lot of land privately from the Ottomans before they lost the land to the British in WWI which is not often spoken about either.

The West Bank was Jordan’s. They didn’t want it back when offered after the 1967 war so Israel was left with it. Same as Egypt with Gaza.

I didn’t know Arafat was Egyptian. How interesting!

There is no such country as Palestine. The two state solution was rejected on multiple occasions by the Palestinian leadership. What there is is Israel and the 'Palestinian territories'. Until 1967 Gaza belonged to Egypt and the West Bank belonged to Jordan. The concept of a Palestinian identity was only introduced after the 1967 war - and it was a political move. Yasser Arafat was actually Egyptian, born in Cairo.

Israel withdrew entirely from Gaza in 2005 and removed all of its peoples. What did the Gazan inhabitants do then? They elected Hamas, who declared jihad and have been firing rockets and building tunnels ever since. There was no security wall in 2005. It was Hamas's commitment to destroying Israel that necessitated it. Gaza was not " occupied" at all"; and furthermore Egypt wanted nothing to do with the Palestinians and certainly not with Hamas - hence their security wall, and refusal to allow admittance, even now in the face of war.

Jordan offered citizenship to almost 3 million Palestinians after the 67'war. How did the Palestinian leadership thank them? They tried to assasinate the King of Jordan and conducted campaigns of terror. Likewise, when Kuwait offered a home, the PLO decided to back Saddam Hussein's invasion. Kuwait couldn't wait to get rid of their Palestinian 'problem' after that.

The West Bank situation has arisen in the absence of a two state solution, because of an increasingly radicalised Israeli settler movement - who no longer have any faith that co-existence is possible. That is not to excuse the behaviour - but it does go a short way in explaining some of it. But Israel has removed its people before, and could so again. But the Palestinians have to show willing; and so far they have not. They still teach their children that all of the land betwen the river and the sea is theirs. They do not even recognise Israel.

That last bit, totally offensive and racist.

There was another video from the same campus, with their so-called 'progressive' students screaming 'go back to Poland'. To American Jewish kids. But apparently it's all just anti-Zionism, or something.

wtf is that

Chanting cultish behaviour my god

Nazis block Jews from entering the University of Vienna. Austria, 1938