Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?

That is simply not true.

Israel is actually a secular state, in which there is no law saying that the head of state must be Jewish. What Israel does provide, though, is a supportive environment for Judaism and for Jewish culture. There are arab -Muslims, of course, in the Knesset, and 20 % of the Israeli population is arab Muslim. There are also Christians, Druze and Bahai' plus Bedouins - all Israeli citizens

On the otherhand there are many ethno-religious states, most of them Muslim.
If a Palestinian state was formed, it would be far more of an ethno state than Israel is. Israel is multi-cultural, more so than many countries - which are far more ethnically mono-cultural.

"In addition to the 30 countries in this analysis, another 19 nations have religious requirements for ceremonial monarchs who serve as their heads of state. Sixteen of these, including the U.K Australia, Canada and New Zealand, are members of the Commonwealth of Nations with Queen Elizabeth II – also known as the Defender of the Faith – as their head of state. The other countries in this category are Denmark, Norway and Sweden"

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/07/22/in-30-countries-heads-of-state-must-belong-to-a-certain-religion/

Lebanon is a democracy albeit with weird rules. Jordan is a monarchy but they do have elections to an degree (I was visiting when they were on).

I always wonder to what extent the Balfour declaration (and general backing of Israel by various countries) was because the countries really wanted not only Jewish refugees from pogroms overseas but also their own Jewish citizens to, well, be not in our country, can't they live somewhere else.

Rwanda style. Don't want so and so here, find somewhere far off, do a bit of handwaving to pretend it'll magically end well.

There is always a 'but'...to explain why Jews can't have a nation, where they aren't loathed and attacked. I'm sick of this:
France Jewish woman kidnapped
This is exactly why we support Israel and if they need me I'll fight and die for her.

So India is a predominantly Hindu country, and the other two Muslim. After having lived for centuries together before being made a part of the Empire
It wasn't as simple as that. There was a lot of fighting and conquest going on before John Company ever showed up.

Can I ask, what ideology do you believe marches are protesting for?

Just to clarify, are you saying that people are marching FOR Hamas or an Islamic Republic? if they are supporting Palestinians and the end to the occupation?

I hope I misread but that is categorically untrue.

Marchers are not a monolith
Jewish people are not a monolith
Arabs are not a monolith
Muslims are not a monolith
Christians are not a monolith
Palestinians are not a monolith
The Middle East is not a monolith

Yes many Arab countries have governance systems that differ widely from the western systems but to brush them all as "hell holes" for women is oversimplifying the complex sociopolitical and economic landscapes of the region. It is quite offensive too tbh.

There is a spectrum. Moreover, in the poorest economies, social progression cannot happen under oppression.

I would also like to know how badly women are treated that make living in the Middle East a hell hole- because that is not my experience. What metrics are we using?

How are women treated so badly in the UAE for example?Women hold about 50% of the positions in the Federal National Council- they hold ministerial roles and have recently enacted equal pay. This is a young country. Look at how long it has taken us in the UK to get that.

In Jordan?Women hold ministerial roles, high employment opps, and the laws enacted recently to protect their rights in marriage and against DV.

In Tunisia?Arguably one the most progressive in the region. Big campaigners on gender equality
In Lebanon? Much more liberal than its neighbours

None of these are democracies but they are making strides right? in the right direction hopefully.

Ironically- the close ally of the US and the UK, Saudi Arabia treat women and have have historically treated them like shit but politics is politics isn't it? Let's not condemn them, because we can hold them to a different standard can't we? No accountability there. Only v recently did they get rid of the "mutawa", what you'd call the "Mullas" in IR Iran- They really are two sides of the same coin. But you won't hear western leaders say things to ruffle Saudi feathers.

All govt's should be held to the same scrutiny I'm afraid. Wrong is wrong.

You could argue that it’s military practices are driven from the declarations of war (9 wars in all I think), incessant rocket attacks and terrorist attacks which started from the first day of its inception.

I would like to add that there is some nuance.

More recently it's the military occupation in the West Bank along with:

1-The expansion of illegal settlements,
2-The military law the Palestinians are tried under rather than Civil Law.
3-The practices that make it near impossible for a spouse to join their naturalised Israeli citizen partner in Israel.
4-The blockade on Gaza
5-The transient and precarious residency of Palestinian Christians and Muslims in Jerusalem and threats of eviction and loss of residency
6-The checkpoints and humiliation of Palestinians crossing into Jerusalem for work.
7-The difficulties obtaining any building permits in Area C of WB and the rationing of residencies in rural areas like the Negev.
8-The subsequent demolitions of houses build due to said non provided permits
9-The sterilisation and segregation of cities like Hebron
10-The harassment towards Palestinians in the WB by armed settlers.
11-The disparities of water access to Palestinian communities
12-Academic and cultural expression- displaying the Palestinian flag or showing Palestinian identity in Jerusalem can get police intervention. Cultural and literature events are often cancelled or prohibited in Jerusalem
13-Palestinian archeologists get restrictions on where to conduct their digs, in the WB, what they can excavate and what they can report on.
14-Archeology sites are restricted for Palestinians- Ibrahimi Mosque/Tomb of the Patriarchs is sacred to both people but the site is divided and access is restricted for Palestinians.
15- Palestinians in the diaspora, may face difficulties getting visas to visit their families in the WB and EJ.

I do not feel these issues bring the peace any closer to reality and that addressing these are important, and an important step towards.

I do believe that it is the WHAT not the WHO (for me anyway) but I am respectful that for some this may be personal and I hope that with proper dialogue we can all find a resolution and that all this can be a distant memory.

Your last paragraph resonates for me.
I see 3 main ideologies competing for governance/influence in the world, but geopolitics is an interest not an expertise for me.

Many more erudite & eloquent people than me on these boards.

It doesn’t really seem to work. A fair bit of violence between religious groups still from what I’ve been reading.

Human nature, by the looks of it, is very busy needing enemies of the tribe. Like that crazy video illustrated.

It was considered a solution to sectarian violence I suppose, does it work?
Lots displaced from the Punjab went to Africa I believe, where they were expelled again by the likes of idi amin.

Yes. When India was let free from the British Empire in 1947/48 there broke out war between Hindus and Muslims, and West- Pakistan and East-Pakistan were designated muslim countries. Much killing and uprooting of masses (millions) of people ensued. In order for people to live in the country that was «made» for their religion.
The Kashmir is still very much a region of conflict, for example.
East-Pakistan broke free as Bangladesh in 1971.

So India is a predominantly Hindu country, and the other two Muslim. After having lived for centuries together before being made a part of the Empire.

Just adressing the last bit, but I think the reason orthodox and reformist jews are against the formation if a jewish state has to do with armageddon, the apocalypse and the coming of the Messiah?
So a religious opposition, which of course spills wholeheartedly in to politics.

I hold the position still that anti-zionism is anti the existence of the state of Israel - I cannot logically see what else it is, including from your posts.
I appreciate your posts, I just disagree.

Most of the Arab countries in the region are theocracies, governed by clans that adhere to one or another version of Islam. They are not democracies. They are very hierarchichal (spelling 😬), and patriarchically run, and frankly hellholes for women.
This was the case in Europe too, some centuries back, with intense fighting between different Christian factions.

It is not a given that History must move in such ways that the Middle Eastern countries reach the same political solutions that for example Europe has - with great personal freedom for both men and women. And it frightens me when people demonstrate and march FOR an oppressive ideology.
I am aware many march for the poor civilians trapped in Gaza, but they do so blindly and lens their support indirectly to authoritarian theocratic regimes.

Closer to home the Scots are threatening independence, and their leaders don't seem very concerned about womens' rights....but those pesky Scottish wims won't weesht apparently.

I'm waiting for someone to start on those pesky Caananites and the Southern Levant, it was all their fault for wanting their own home.

Indeed. And yet there are Sikh separatists in India who want their own state too.

My Kashmiri friends will be along soon to give their views on the British and the partition of the Indian Empire.

Followed by the Kurds, who weren't too keen on Saddam Hussein. despite George Galloways love for all things Saddam.

Weren't Pakistan & Bangladesh formed as religious states? Iran too since the revolution that replaced Persia. (Iran means land of the Aryans I believe, some awful historic resonance there)

It is very unique in that regard I agree.
but having an ethnoreligious state is a very unique thing too so I cannot make parallels or draw comparisons.

It is unique. No other state is exclusive in this way.

Israel is of course a legal state.
Its practices are not.

Quite simply anti Zionism is opposition to a Jewish state, i.e. Israel, even existing. How on earth can you state this does not inherently involve prejudice against Jewish people?

Well how can you explain that many Jews (Orthodox and Reform) claim contrary?
Zionism was opposed by many Jews in the 1800's and 1900's.

anti Zionism TODAY is anti politics of the state of Israel.

Antizionism is the criticism of the POLITICAL ideology of Zionism. This does not inherently involve prejudice against Jewish people, but it criticizes and focuses on political and territorial disputes and military practices, and rights of Palestinians.

Quite simply anti Zionism is opposition to a Jewish state, i.e. Israel, even existing. How on earth can you state this does not inherently involve prejudice against Jewish people?

You could argue that it’s military practices are driven from the declarations of war (9 wars in all I think), incessant rocket attacks and terrorist attacks which started from the first day of its inception.

Let’s ignore the fact Israel is a legally recognised country and its creation was agreed by the governing authority at that time after over 400 years of Ottoman rule in that area.

I can’t think of any other country in the world where there are cries that it should not exist due to the religion of the majority of its citizens, can you @datcherygrateful?

Good posts by *Rebellious".
The US university with the problems has moved all classes online so things can calm down (they need to ensure the safety of jewish students and indeed anyone who is not on the Hamas side).

Regarding Israel having the support of the U.S, let's not forget that Hamas and Hezbollah, the Houthis etc have the support of Iran.

I was reading the obituary of Terry Anderson last night. Remember He, Terry Waite and Brian Keenan, amongst others, were held hostage by Hezbollah in the 1980s/90s?

The tensions in the middle East are the focus for various world powers and alignments and have been for a long time. That includes Russian interests too.

Israel has been singled out by Western Leftists because it has American support - and because American has also been the great enemy of Western Socialists. That Russian Jews who were amongst the first Communist intellectuals should also embrace their Jewish identity and the Zionist project could never be forgiven.

Most people who are on those, almost weekly, marches have no clue about the rest of the world's conflicts. They are there through tribalistic solidarity; and that includes all of those SWP people and other socialist factions who have been hating on Israel long before Netanyahu was even on the scene. I know that - because I've been around Left culture a lot in my life. Back in the 1980's everyone was wearing shemags too - and boycotting Israel was the thing to do. For these people Israel. Full stop. Is the issue - not just one of its governments.

The over arching difference is that the UK, USA and other western democracies openly CONDEMN what is happening n Pakistan, Iran. Syria. Saudi Arabia. China. Russia etc.

But simultaneously CONDONE the actions of BB's gvt. Israel is a democracy too, when others are not.

The line must be drawn equally where all govts are held to account.

Israel is not singled out for reasons you say i.e "because it is a Jewish state"
It is talked about extensively because of the impunity the government has; the lack of accountability and relentless arms support. There are countries that are doing much worse than the Israeli govt yes , but at the same time, but the international community are quick to condemn them.

How many politicians have openly agreed that China's treatment of Muslims, or Russia's anything, IR Iran's treatment of their people are just and in proportion and that they should just crack on?

That's the difference. It's politics.

So long as they are not Israeli, or those who are Zionists. Only the 'good' jews are acceptable?

Yet Israel is the one country - which is the world's only Jewish state - which is singled out for continual focus. Jeremy Corbyn said that the 'Middle Eastern' issue is the most important one in the world, on which everyone shoud focus. He referred to Hamas and Hezbollah as "friends". We can look back to Soviet history to understand a bit of why that is the case.

There are plenty of other recently formed countries in the world, some much more recently formed than Israel, and yet it is Israel which continues to attract such ire from Western Leftists ( primarily) - with denials of its right to exist, along with calls to sanction it and boycott Israeli produce ( even though Israel has provided vital jobs and income to many living in Gaza and the West Bank.)

Israel is a counry with a free press and multiple political parties. It is a democracy. Criticism of Israeli government policy is as valid as criticism of the policies of any other government. Any criticisms that are made, are also made by Israelis themselves in the context of free speech and parliamentary debate.
Legitimate criticism is not anti semitic - nobody suggests it is - it is the over focus and concentration on denying Israel's very right to exist which is the issue.

We don't see people getting quite so excited about Pakistan, or Afghanistan ,any other of the Muslim states, or marching every weekend about the regime in Iran, or the various vicious, brutal civil wars and massacres going on in African countries, or what is going on in Haiti and so on. Why is it Israel which attracts such special treatment and focus? The reason: Hatred of Israel is an article of faith on the Left and has been since the 1960's -with roots in leftist thinking about America and 'the West' in general.

Zionism is not just a political ideology - it is also the longing for home which is common in most human societies. For Jewish people this longing found a place to settle in Israel. We don't need to recount the thousands of years of persecutions, massacres, expulsions - that finally ended in the gas chambers of Europe - to understand why Zionism has such a pull.

Yet those who call themselves 'Pro-Palestinians' see no double standards or irony in calling for a Palestinian state - to which even third generation people born in the U.S.A, South America or Europe would be given a right of return. To a country that has never before existed based on the fact that their ancestors were born in that region.

What we are witnessing on the streets oof Britain now is a combination of Leftist obsession with Israel, combined with the natural emnity towards Jews from many muslims - and a new young generation of social media imspired political activists who know little about the roots of that against which they demonstrate. Hating on Israel, and not having the skills to evaluate complex, long standing issues or differentiate between particular Israeli Government policies; the Zionist project, the existence of Israel, the presence of 'openly' Jewish people - especially those who have zionist sympathies ( which is most) leads us to the current situation - in which blatamnt anti semitic and jew hating behaviour is becoming increasingly common, and even tolerated and excuses made for it.