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Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?

388 replies

lechiffre55 · 19/04/2024 19:59

A Metropolitan police officer threatened to arrest a man for being "Openly Jewish" in London. Is this a hate crime in Scotland under the new hate crime laws?

I think it is. Could someone report it for me please I find it incredibly offensive and racist. I want to see what happens when Scottish Police try to get involved with racist actions taken by the Metropolitan Police.

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1781393179683483960

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1781393179683483960

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26
IwantToRetire · 20/04/2024 01:15

I have just seen a video of the policeman confronting the person concerned which was shown on the news.

And what this looks like is a hamfisted attempt to tell someone to avoid a group of people that may be hostile to him ie the policeman is saying the demonstraters could or might be a threat to someone "openly Jewish" and adds I am not accusing you of anything.

I suppose this would be the same if they advised someone who was "openly Asian" to not go near a National Front march.

This is standard policing, lone police taking it upon themselves to decide that to avoid a confrontation or violence they advise individuals to avoid areas where a demonstration is going on. Its happened to me. I assume because they think a lone female is vulnerable going near where opposing groups of men are confronting each other.

I am not saying the policeman was right, and the phrase used is unacceptable, and also stupid as "openly Jewish" people are on the march.

For me this is the poison coming from some sections of the political class eg Suella Braverman who tried to whip up fear about the marches not being safe, even though Jewish people take part in them.. Or when she went totally batshit and implied one of the marches was going to disrupt the Rememberance Day events, although the march that day was no where near any of the ceremonies. But what she did do is encouraged right wing thugs to turn up looking for a fight, which never happened, so they fought with each other. Or the politician who talk about no go areas in London.

Apart from the bad policing it is also disgraceful that the media, well some of them, are trying to skew the reporting to make out it was something it clearly wasn't.

Or individuals jumping in and saying it was a set up.

songaboutjam · 20/04/2024 00:47

"This isn't about Jews, it's about Israel... of course there are loads of good anti-Zionist Jews... we mustn't conflate antisemitism with anti-Zionism..."

noraclavicle · 20/04/2024 00:28

The knucklehead apologists on this thread are something else. Or maybe they’re feeling more and emboldened now.

noraclavicle · 20/04/2024 00:26

neilyoungismyhero · 19/04/2024 23:05

Really? In the middle of a pro Palestinian march..just because you can doesn't mean you should.

You’re just saying the quiet part out loud there, aren’t you.

CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment · 20/04/2024 00:26

neilyoungismyhero · 19/04/2024 23:05

Really? In the middle of a pro Palestinian march..just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Have you been to London recently? The marches are enormous and frequent, you would have to leave the city to avoid them. Or maybe you want London to be judenfrei, idk.

IcakethereforeIam · 20/04/2024 00:23

Unbelievable, and the police had to apologise for their victim blamey apology.

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 20/04/2024 00:17

neilyoungismyhero · 19/04/2024 23:05

Really? In the middle of a pro Palestinian march..just because you can doesn't mean you should.

WTF are you serious?!

He's living his life as a British citizen why the fuck shouldn't he be safe walking down a street?! Are you saying it's accepted that these marchers will be violent towards him & if so that the police should arrest him rather than any violent protesters?!!

LadyGooGaa · 20/04/2024 00:16

Garlicked · 19/04/2024 23:42

I can see Twist's pov, to be honest. The police are present at demos to try and prevent violence - thus, on the wider scale, protecting everyone's right to peaceful protest. They aren't there to protect every individual's right to say what they want at that moment. It'd be great if every police officer was an impartial, sophisticated negotiator and we had enough of them to cover all eventualities but, back in the real world ...

I believe the officer felt he was taking steps to prevent potential violence/persecution. In a highly charged situation with two opposing 'sides', it's sensible to keep them separate. When I used to go to football matches, the police would channel the two lots of supporters along two different routes. It was tough luck if your route took you a mile further away from your tube station, you had to go where you were shepherded. Everyone understood it was to minimise the risk of being knifed by overzealous fans of the opposing team.

I know they often get it wrong where demonstrations on political or social issues are concerned. I do, though, think, it's right in principle to keep members of the opposed group at a safe distance from a legal, policed protest against them. Presumably they would do the same with anyone being 'openly Palestinian' at a pro-Israel rally.

Absolutely nothing would happen to a visible Muslim walking past a pro Israel rally. Have you ever seen these rallies?

Hélène79 · 19/04/2024 23:54

I know they often get it wrong where demonstrations on political or social issues are concerned. I do, though, think, it's right in principle to keep members of the opposed group at a safe distance from a legal, policed protest against them. Presumably they would do the same with anyone being 'openly Palestinian' at a pro-Israel rally.

"Opposed group"? Unless I've missed something, the guy was Jewish not Israeli! We keep being told the opposed group is Israel not British Jews! And what does "openly Palestinian" have to do with it? This guy wasn't being openly Israeli, he was just being a Jewish Londoner, walking after being at the synagogue!

Hélène79 · 19/04/2024 23:45

neilyoungismyhero · 19/04/2024 23:05

Really? In the middle of a pro Palestinian march..just because you can doesn't mean you should.

What a thoroughly unkind response He wasn't doing anything wrong except...be Jewish. He wasn't doing anything 'pro-Israeli'. He wasn't shouting at protestors. He wasn't flying a flag. He was just being a Jewish citizen going about his business yet was told to leave the street because of his ethnicity/religion. I'm Jewish, and sadly find myself being grateful at the moment that I'm not visibly Jewish because I would be starting to genuinely fear for my safety in this city. I can't get my head around your response - do you have compassion for other minority groups?

To the rest of you on this thread, thank you for taking this seriously and showing compassion. (Apart from the other PP upthread that tried to insinuate the incident was a set-up to manufacture sympathy, as per that old antisemitic trope that Jews are making it all up and can't be trusted).

Garlicked · 19/04/2024 23:42

LadyGooGaa · 19/04/2024 22:37

Here are some actual facts about the incident. Members of the Jewish community in London are starting to feel uncomfortable and threatened by these protests. Many banners and chants could be interpreted as hate speech (including flying a swastika flag) and they feel that the demos are becoming less about Gaza and more about Jew hatred. Some have decided to confront the protestors with banners of their own and they often film themselves as back up incase something happens.
After the Jewish man was told he was being openly Jewish and they would arrest him, there was a complaint made and the Met issued a statement.
The statement basically said that Jews put themselves in danger by being there and they’re being provocative and they can’t protect them. Here’s a pic of what they wrote:

I can see Twist's pov, to be honest. The police are present at demos to try and prevent violence - thus, on the wider scale, protecting everyone's right to peaceful protest. They aren't there to protect every individual's right to say what they want at that moment. It'd be great if every police officer was an impartial, sophisticated negotiator and we had enough of them to cover all eventualities but, back in the real world ...

I believe the officer felt he was taking steps to prevent potential violence/persecution. In a highly charged situation with two opposing 'sides', it's sensible to keep them separate. When I used to go to football matches, the police would channel the two lots of supporters along two different routes. It was tough luck if your route took you a mile further away from your tube station, you had to go where you were shepherded. Everyone understood it was to minimise the risk of being knifed by overzealous fans of the opposing team.

I know they often get it wrong where demonstrations on political or social issues are concerned. I do, though, think, it's right in principle to keep members of the opposed group at a safe distance from a legal, policed protest against them. Presumably they would do the same with anyone being 'openly Palestinian' at a pro-Israel rally.

ArabellaScott · 19/04/2024 23:15

neilyoungismyhero · 19/04/2024 23:05

Really? In the middle of a pro Palestinian march..just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Can what? Exist as a Jewish person? Wtf are you suggesting, that Jews should avoid certain streets in case of coming across any Palestinian marches?

Noicant · 19/04/2024 23:08

neilyoungismyhero · 19/04/2024 23:05

Really? In the middle of a pro Palestinian march..just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Why? People keep saying the marches have nothing to do with hatred of Jews. Are you saying it does have to do with hating Jews?

You may as well say after 9/11 anyone who looked vaguely like they may possibly be muslim shouldn’t be walking around because y’know it’s provocative.

neilyoungismyhero · 19/04/2024 23:05

ViolinSpin · 19/04/2024 22:10

Are you saying the gentleman knew the police would react that way?
What do you mean by this post?

I think the whole thing is awful. He just wanted to go about his business in London.

Really? In the middle of a pro Palestinian march..just because you can doesn't mean you should.

lechiffre55 · 19/04/2024 23:05

Perhaps if we used chalk to mark a six pointed star on the clothes of Jewish people in London, that people might recognise the Star of David on them as they walk around the city to know to treat them with respect? We could similarly mark their homes and businesses so people knew to be nice to them?
Perhaps we could tattoo their forarms with numbers so people could look the numbers up on a database to know how to treat them? Wouldn't that make London safer for everyone?
Why don't the Met just go whole hogg and get Hugo Boss in to redesign their uniforms?

This is incredibly sour and annoyed sarcasm for those that would abuse context.

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ArabellaScott · 19/04/2024 23:03

And they certainly have a right to walk about while being openly Jewish, ffs!

Noicant · 19/04/2024 23:02

It’s appalling, if this isn’t about Jewish people and anti-semitism then any Jewish person should be completely safe. If it is about Jewish people then they are unsafe. It’s like an admission from the met that some people at the marches are anti-semetic and they will hold the victims of aggression responsible rather than the perpetrators.

Theres that Iranian dissident the police arrested for holding a “Hamas are terrorists” sign.

It’s ridiculous, people absolutely have a right to peaceful protest but people have a right to counter protest too without fear of violence or arrest.

ArabellaScott · 19/04/2024 22:57

The police are suggesting Jews should, what, avoid certain areas? Hide any signs that might give them away as 'openly Jewish'?

User1979289 · 19/04/2024 22:56

Jews don't count indeed
This is insanity

songaboutjam · 19/04/2024 22:46

So in a climate of open antisemitism, a man's presence in a public space has been deemed problematic due to being identifiable as Jewish. And an official has decided to remove him under threat of arrest.

Confused
lechiffre55 · 19/04/2024 22:38

@ArabellaScott
Just like the women who were "asking for it"
and the kids were "asking for it"
and the wives were "asking for it"
It was their fault....

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LadyGooGaa · 19/04/2024 22:37

Here are some actual facts about the incident. Members of the Jewish community in London are starting to feel uncomfortable and threatened by these protests. Many banners and chants could be interpreted as hate speech (including flying a swastika flag) and they feel that the demos are becoming less about Gaza and more about Jew hatred. Some have decided to confront the protestors with banners of their own and they often film themselves as back up incase something happens.
After the Jewish man was told he was being openly Jewish and they would arrest him, there was a complaint made and the Met issued a statement.
The statement basically said that Jews put themselves in danger by being there and they’re being provocative and they can’t protect them. Here’s a pic of what they wrote:

Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?
ArabellaScott · 19/04/2024 22:36

NotAllowed · 19/04/2024 21:44

Seems like a setup to manufacture sympathy

You mean, he was asking for it?

lechiffre55 · 19/04/2024 22:29

Thevelvelletes · 19/04/2024 22:25

Would the officer done that to a black person if a far right match was happening....the not the nine o clock news sketch instantly sprang to mind.

arrested for being "openly Black" in public
my how that 40ish year old comedy sketch has aged today........

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lechiffre55 · 19/04/2024 22:26

Isn't the French ban on/in publicly funded services/buildings not the legal sense of "in public".
e.g. it's ok to walk down a public road wearing religious garb, but you can't enter the public department of xxxxxx building with religious garb? Or am I completely wrong on that?

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