Is "openly Jewish" a hate crime under the April Fools Scottish hate crime law?

Thanks for that!

We also don’t hear much about Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of Hassan Yousef, a founder of Hamas and leader in the West Bank (people keep saying Hamas is not in the West Bank oddly enough). There are interviews and speeches at the UN available if you Google but they don’t seem to make it to mainstream news.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c2NaiX-hvVQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOEJumoABg

He also did an interview with Dr Phil in the US recently with some Palestinian activists from a US University which was rather eye opening.

He is one amazingly brave guy and should be listened to.

Lies. Nothing has been proven untrue at all.

Children were tied together before being burnt. There are images of many charred bodies, some bound together, Including the bodies of children. Girl children were raped too - not just women.

Hamas posted images of bodies being dragged around tied to the back of motorbikes - one with the head burnt to a black coal. Multiple images of horrendous barbarity. And yes, this things happened, there were witnesses, survivors, first responders, and also doctors conducting autopsies

Rapes have continued in captivity too. Some who have been released have shared testimony of disgusting abuses that occured in the tunnels.

I've a mind to report you for spreading hateful conspiracy theories........Have you no shame at all?

I'm not gong to engage with your wilful blindness again.

Untrue stories about mass rapes?
A lot of women were raped. Some were gang raped.
But those don't count as mass rapes?
Okay....

However, if Jews in parts of the world openly support and condone what is happening in Palestine at the moment, the killing and starving for 1000s of children and families, then they do have to shoulder some of the responsibilities and reactions.

Oh wow. I think you said the quiet part out loud.

I am NOT minimising what happened at all- I am saying that a lot of disgusting propaganda which followed, as been proven to be untrue. A massive difference.

@fungipie can you please stop with minimising what the men of Hamas did on 7th October. Yes, some inaccurate bullshit circulated in the fog of horror and confusion in the aftermath: that is what happens in such circumstances. But women were raped and mutilated and killed, and children died.

It wasn't just the odd rape:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html
'A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.'
Some people are busy arguing about the NYT's reporting on this one, so...

Another source:
'rape or GANG rape [my emphasis] in at least three locations'
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/24093631/un-israel-october-7-sexual-violence
'The UN’s office on sexual violence in conflict released a report Monday finding “reasonable grounds to believe” that militants from Gaza did perpetrate sexual violence during their attack on Israel that day, including rape or gang rape in at least three locations. The report also cautioned that significant further investigation would be necessary to establish how widespread such attacks were.'

The UN isn't exactly a friend of Israel.

And children died. We know children died. And children were abducted, too.

I reported your earlier post about this. I am not reporting your later ones. You are damning yourself with your own words.

For people who totally rely on social media for their news and information, there is a real danger of falling for conspiracy theories.

The denial of the October 7th atrocities was initially a niche conspiracy theory, but one which appears to be growing, as young ( and not so young) though ignorant activists ingest readily - as they cast about for 'evidence' to back up their anti Israel position.

These conspiracies mirror past anti semitic narratives that suggest that Jews are behind absolutely everything bad in the world; that they manipulate, and pay for, all manner of things.

Apparently Piers Corbyn, brother of Jeremy "in an interview during a pro-Palestine rally, stated that Israel funds Hamas and had allowed for the hostages to be taken during the attacks. He also claimed that there were no children killed during the attacks and those involved were crisis actors"

This is crazy stuff!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialofthe_2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel

It has expanded - and shrunk back and expanded some again, after Wars spurred on by the British and French, and after attacks from neighbouring countries.
And I’m sure by relatively aggressive governments.
Egypt is the country that lost most territory at one point, though maybe the lack of resentment is because they got the Sinai back.

I just read today that Hamas is ready to discuss ceasefire for up to 5 years, conditions etc. I hope a peaceful solution is coming, sooner rather than later.

But back to the OP, why has it been ok for antisemitism to be on the rise? Particularly after this conflict?
How can a jew in London be rebuked for being openly jewish?
He is diaspora, he is not in Israel.
Why is it ok to harass jews in other parts of the world for something that the Israeli government is responsible for?

At some stage in the not too distant future there will be an election, and Netanyahu will likely not survive. The best that can be hoped for is an Israeli unity coalition going forward while Israel re-stabilises itself and Gaza is reconstructed.

But that cannot happen until Hamas are defeated, or until Hamas ceases with its Jihadi commitment and releases the remaining hostages - but as you must know Hamas is funded by the Iranian regime, which clearly has its own ideas and agendas about the balance of power in the Middle East. What is certain is that the situation cannot revert to the waay it was before October 7th - and unless Hamas is removed that is what would happen.

Regarding the settlements beyond the Green Line on the West Bank, I imagine in the event of a new Israeli unity government and with an agreement for peace with the Palestinian leadership that the isuse of which settlements remain and which do not would be up for negotiation.

None of this can happen without the co-operation of both sides, though. and without the support of surrounding arab countries and the international community.

(Yes, you are still going with the conspiracy theories i see, whereby Israel did it to itself - because you want for one side to have all the responsibility, and for the other to be the perpetual victim. But that is not how it works, and it is not the truth, either)

My responses are based on lots of study and reading, and from Jewish friends who have lived in Israel since the 60s. There is lots of evidence that Netanyahu has been planning a final attack for a very long time. Video evidence too.

I am sorry but if anyone has been swallowing one sided propaganda, it is not me.

So if you want to engage- what do you think should happen to all the illegal settlements since 1948?

And what should happen to the Gaza territory after this 'war' ends?

And what should happen to the surviving Palestinians who live there?

I have engaged, as you say- by saying that Hamas knew that Netanyahu was waiting for an excuse- and they gave it him. Massive lies and propaganda followed to make sure the world was even mor shocked, by even more diabolical stories of babies beheaded and burnt alive, and systematic and massive rape- all have been proven to be untrue. What happened on the day was bad and awful enough, we all agree. No-one is denying this, and that rape did probably occur, and that that was diabolical.

Many Israelis, including ex military- cannot understand however how this attack was not stopped. The fence is constantly monitored, and took a long time to cross with heavy machinery., and then there was quite a distance between the fence and the kibbutz. Combined with plenty of intelligence and warnings, and very sophisticated defence artillery. So why was it not stopped. They could have been shot down at the fence, or anywhere on their route to the kibbutz- but they were allowed to cross and to keep going. It is quite unbelievable, truly. And military experts on all agree on this, and re the intelligence received in weeks and days before.

I know what your answer will be in advance, re conspiracies. Will make no difference.

You are refusing to engage your mind with the question because you'd rather cling to your one narrative - that Israel is bad, that Israel wants to kill all the Palestinians etc.

How did you come to this conclusion I wonder, if you refuse to think extensively on the matter?

Could it be you are just reading one sided propaganda from social media sources that don't require you to do any thinking for yourself?

Interestingly we hear lost about Jews or Israelis, such as Ilan Pappe who oppose the existence of Israel, but we hear less, if anything at all, about the Muslims or Palestinians that support the existence of Israel. People such Tawfik Hamid or Kasim Hafeez, for example - who both write and speak extensively on the matter.

As with anything, there are always two sides to a story.

And Interestingly there are many Qur'anic scholars who say that the Qur'an regards Palestine as Jewish Land:

"Imam Abdul Hadi Palazzi, leader of Italian Muslim Assembly and a co-founder and a co-chairman of the Islam-Israel Fellowship, quotes the Qur'an to support Judaism's special connection to the Temple Mount. According to Palazzi, "The most authoritative Islamic sources affirm the Temples." He adds that Jerusalem is sacred to Muslims because of its prior holiness to Jews and its standing as home to the biblical prophets and kings David and Solomon, all of whom he says are sacred figures also in Islam. He claims that the Qur'an "expressly recognizes that Jerusalem plays the same role for Jews that Mecca has for Muslims".

When asked what the Qur'an says about the State of Israel, Palazzi replied:

"The Qur'an cannot deal with the State of Israel as we know it today, since that State only came into existence in 1948, i.e. many centuries after the Qur'an itself was revealed. However, the Qur'an specifies that the Land of Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, that God Himself gave that Land to them as heritage and ordered them to live therein. It also announces that – before the end of time – the Jewish people will come from many different countries to retake possession of that heritage of theirs. Whoever denies this actually denies the Qur'an itself. If he is not a scholar, and in good faith believes what other people say about this issue, he is an ignorant Muslim. If, on the contrary, he is informed about what the Qur'an and openly opposes it, he ceases to be a Muslim"

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/4/25/israeli-settlers-on-a-rampage

I am not ignoring your question RC- I do not know the answer. They knew Netanyahu was desperate for any excuse to go to war and finally destroy Gaza. And they gave him one. I just do not understand.

Do you think that Hamas miscalculated the likely Israeli response to the atrocities of October 7th that brought this war about? Or do you think it was their intention?

Maybe Israel is a less scary target than Russia.

Got it in one.

@quantumbutterfly @turbonerd @EdithStourton just wanted to clear up some points. Bangladesh was NEVER a religous state. tbh neither is Pakistan (it started off as a democracy but is mainly ruled by the military with puppet 'democratically elected' leaders). Bangladesh was formed as a socialist democracy, it is a mess now because we have what is effectively a (non religous) dictatorship but it is a secular country with a majority Muslim but and a significant Hindu population.
India was formed as a secular democracy. however recently BJP (the ruling party) has derailed that with unhinged religous fundamentalism. although the majority of population are Hindus, there are significant numbers of Muslims and Christians.
the reason for the secetarian violence and subsequent division (Britain's idea) was because the British actively divided and ruled during their colonial history. in areas of Muslim majority, they made Hindus leaders and vice versa. they didn't just do this in SEA but also all over Africa.

historically the Indian subcontinent has had fluid governance with independent regional kings/Lords with brief periods of empire eg. Mughals/the Mayurans etc. not sure how realistic a united modern Indian subcontinent is. it certainly was Gandhi's dream.

1948 territory is one thing, but it never stopped there, did it.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

Of course it exists- but certainly not in the form created in 1948. Since, it has expanded illegally, in the most violent and cruel of ways- on and on, and on some more. And even now, some are queuing on the Gaza border, ready to take over when this 'war' ends.

The majority of the Israeli population are Mizrahi or Sephardic - hence not 'white'. There are also almost 200,00 Israelis of Ethiopian origin. Israel is a diverse and multi-cultural society.

That is pure nonsense. 'Zionists' as you call them, by which you also mean people living on the Kibbutz - that were massacred by Hamas on October 7th -used to have shared farms and factories with 'Palestinians' living in Gaza - before the wall ( after the election of Hamas). They had friendships.

Gazans, though, continued to work on Israeli Kibbutz and elsewhere in Israel right up to the massacre, and it is thought that some of those who knew the kibbutz well - because they had worked there - had been involved in the awful events of that day. People on the West Bank also worked in Israel, making far more money and with better conditions than they would find with Palestinian employers - enabling them to build their own homes etc. Israelis ( or 'Zionists' as you might call them) would drive Gazan children for specialist treatments at hospitals in Tel Aviv. That included some of those people who were murdered and/or taken hostage on October 7th.

We know there is now a radicalised Israeli settler movement on the West Bank - and this is one issue that has to be dealt with if there is ever to be a genuine two state solution - but you know, Israel is a diverse country, and people hold all sorts of different views - including some views you and I might not agree with.........but they don't speak for all Israelis, nor for Zionism.

There is an excellent project called the ' Ask Project' in which average Palestinians and Israelis are interviewed on the street and asked questions about the nature of the conflict/situation in the Middle East, and about their views and hopes for the future - and what is very disheartening to note is that it is overwhelmingly the Palestinians who see no potential, or desire, for a two state solution.

The vast majority deny Israel's right to exist and wish away the existence of Israelis. It is clear from the use of the same repeated phrases - that in school children have been told that all the land "between the river and the sea" belongs to them. This collective denial and refusal to accept any responsibility makes it very difficult to imagine how on earth a long term and workable solution is ever going to be found.

Illan Pappe writes from a very particular viewpoint. He is a career politician/ideologue. He used to be a member of Israel's far Left/Communist party. His work reflects that. He supports BDS ( Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions)against Israel, its universities and its academics; along with Omar Barghouti - yet both made their living from, and were given the space to do their work by, Israeli universities. Sort of champagne socialists, if you like.

Neither of these men supports a two state solution. Both want a total end to Israel and a one state 'solution' with a Jewish minority. They seem to think this would work, and would be all nice and liberal and democratic. Neither gives any weight at all to positive narratives of Israel. Israel is essentially and irredeemably bad.