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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

389 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/04/2024 18:41

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

A Labour of unrequited love | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

For many years now, women have appealed to the Labour Party to try to understand the fundamental clash between women’s rights and the unfair demands of the trans activist movement…

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love

OP posts:
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EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Of course I don’t, you regurgitating the same spin won’t help.

My memory is pretty good with this stuff and Starmer - and you - are all over the place

Penis or adult female which is it?

Which spaces and how?

You seem to have an issue being clear against scrutiny.

It’s down to Labour to clarify.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:15

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 14:08

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EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:08

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:07

People can vote for who they like. It's the constant misrepresentation I don't like.

Except there is no ‘misrepresentation’

We can see what Labour are saying

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:07

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:06

It’s not like women are the only ones pissed off with Labour and don’t want to vote for them - I know quite a few card carriers - some pissed off since Corbyn, the parachuting in of non local pro- Starmer candidates, and now Palestine - and no love for Tory lite Starmer - they don't give a shit about Trans stuff - they would never vote Tory

are they allowed to not vote for Labour? I’m not voting labour because of Corbyn, Labour being Tory-lite, Palestine and women’s rights - and I’m not voting Tory either

People can vote for who they like. It's the constant misrepresentation I don't like.

GailBlancheViola · 21/04/2024 14:07

I said "Personally though idgaf about TW using the ladies."

As in, if I only consider what I want, I don't care about sharing the ladies with trans women.

That is not by any stretch the same as saying "Then going and saying you don't give a fuck about any other woman who may have legitimate reason to care about privacy, dignity and safeguarding".

I find that really offensive. I'm as entitled to my personal opinion as you are.

You certainly are entitled to you personal opinion, however, what about the women who dgaf about TW in the Ladies, what do they do? Reframe their trauma perhaps? Abandon their religion? Just not go out? You backed up your stance with the incorrect majority of women agree with me which polls show they don't.

Dineasair · 21/04/2024 14:07

WallaceinAnderland · 19/04/2024 20:00

I've been more disappointed by the Labour Party than the tories. I expected more from them. I expected Labour to support women. They have not won back my vote. Don't trust them at all.

I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them, the minute they got in they would backtrack and it would be some women can have penises all over again.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:07

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:05

Yes I do recognise that. And I understand it.
Ringing endorsement for the Tories is the general tone of the board writ large. The ratio of pro-Tory vs anti-Labour threads (and vice versa). And the fact several posters have said they will vote Tory.

I really don't care who anyone votes for. I object to the misrepresentation of Labour's position, its not accurate. People not believing them is a different thing. But posters saying they are pro self ID are incorrect.

I also object to the repeated assertion that FWR is not right wing, when anyone with half a brain can see that's not true, just by looking at what gets posted on the board. I'm very much in the minority and I'm not even a dyed in the wool Labour supporter.

Nah you don’t get to sum up this board as much as you try.

Justnot · 21/04/2024 14:06

It’s not like women are the only ones pissed off with Labour and don’t want to vote for them - I know quite a few card carriers - some pissed off since Corbyn, the parachuting in of non local pro- Starmer candidates, and now Palestine - and no love for Tory lite Starmer - they don't give a shit about Trans stuff - they would never vote Tory

are they allowed to not vote for Labour? I’m not voting labour because of Corbyn, Labour being Tory-lite, Palestine and women’s rights - and I’m not voting Tory either

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 14:05

CocoapuffPuff · 21/04/2024 13:55

You do understand quite a few people here have said very clearly that they have nobody to vote for?

Quite how you parse that into a ringing endorsement of the Tories is a mystery.

Yes I do recognise that. And I understand it.
Ringing endorsement for the Tories is the general tone of the board writ large. The ratio of pro-Tory vs anti-Labour threads (and vice versa). And the fact several posters have said they will vote Tory.

I really don't care who anyone votes for. I object to the misrepresentation of Labour's position, its not accurate. People not believing them is a different thing. But posters saying they are pro self ID are incorrect.

I also object to the repeated assertion that FWR is not right wing, when anyone with half a brain can see that's not true, just by looking at what gets posted on the board. I'm very much in the minority and I'm not even a dyed in the wool Labour supporter.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 14:04

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 13:58

I would agree. If that's what I said, which it isn't.

My point was women aren't a hive mind. Not all women think as you do. Other posters saying to me that I'm "silencing women" by disagreeing are in fact silencing me and the many other women like me.

As are you with your accusations and attacks on me.

My comments are reflective of a wide problem labour has generally with nutjob activists being militant and totally alienating nonpartisan voters.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 14:04

There hasn’t been any ‘misrepresentation’ of Labour

We can see their position and words

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 14:02

CocoapuffPuff · 21/04/2024 13:55

You do understand quite a few people here have said very clearly that they have nobody to vote for?

Quite how you parse that into a ringing endorsement of the Tories is a mystery.

Quite

I'm torn by writing truthful comments about the local candidates (whom I know personally), not bothering to vote at all and going ib dib tbh.

None of them 'deserve' my vote at locals. Indeed I'm quite put out at just how poor the quality of the candidates is.

A number of my friends have been approached by parties to stand over the last few years (they all do a lot of volunteering) but none of them want to stand because they all are so fucking disillusioned by party politics.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 13:58

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 13:55

You are entitled to your opinion.

I still think 'idgaf about anyone else' is effectively totally the antithesis of what Labour values are supposedly supposed to be - about a collective responsibility to all.

Hence thinking it's selfish and hypocritical.

I would agree. If that's what I said, which it isn't.

My point was women aren't a hive mind. Not all women think as you do. Other posters saying to me that I'm "silencing women" by disagreeing are in fact silencing me and the many other women like me.

As are you with your accusations and attacks on me.

CocoapuffPuff · 21/04/2024 13:55

You do understand quite a few people here have said very clearly that they have nobody to vote for?

Quite how you parse that into a ringing endorsement of the Tories is a mystery.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 13:55

You are entitled to your opinion.

I still think 'idgaf about anyone else' is effectively totally the antithesis of what Labour values are supposedly supposed to be - about a collective responsibility to all.

Hence thinking it's selfish and hypocritical.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 13:54

ATerrorofLeftovers · 21/04/2024 12:58

I suspect the real objection is that this board puts a spotlight on Labour’s actual position.

The problem is not that we’re misrepresenting Labour, it’s that we’re publicising their actual stance and actions. And that just won’t do, as otherwise how can the wool be continued to be pulled over voter’s eyes?

The "real objection" as I keep saying is this board misrepresents Labour's position and then "puts a spotlight" on the misrepresentation.

Endless threads about Labour the evil bogeyman, they will do this, they will do that, GLAAD donations, civil service capture blah blah 😴

Meanwhile God forbid anyone says anything negative about the Conservatives.

It's extremely noticeable.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 13:50

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 12:39

This illustrates my above point perfectly.

You know that thing that militant Labour supports say about Tories being 'alright jack as long as you have everything who cares about the rest of us' and they get very animated and vocal about it.

Well that.

Then going and saying you don't give a fuck about any other woman who may have legitimate reason to care about privacy, dignity and safeguarding because your perfectly happy and everyone else should be too, cos I'm alright Jack.

Its the stench of hypocrisy that alienates and winds people up.

I don't just see the selfishness. Its the evangelical moralistic lecturing that procedes it thats the truly problematic bit.

Its UGLY.

And totally lacking in self awareness.

I said "Personally though idgaf about TW using the ladies."

As in, if I only consider what I want, I don't care about sharing the ladies with trans women.

That is not by any stretch the same as saying "Then going and saying you don't give a fuck about any other woman who may have legitimate reason to care about privacy, dignity and safeguarding".

I find that really offensive. I'm as entitled to my personal opinion as you are.

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 13:42

I'm seeing little clear communication and bugger all beyond "don't you worry your pretty little head about that, we'll fix YOUR problems later, once the important stuff is done" pat patting.

From women. Not just men. Women.

Not now dear, you'll get your turn later.

👏👏👏

CocoapuffPuff · 21/04/2024 13:31

I'm old enough to remember when political parties knew they HAD TO WIN VOTES.

Not get in by default, by being the least awful of a terrible bunch.

Win.

By having clear goals and policies and targets, and a pretty good idea how to achieve them. By communicating that to their audience, 50% of whom were, and remain, female.

I'm seeing little clear communication and bugger all beyond "don't you worry your pretty little head about that, we'll fix YOUR problems later, once the important stuff is done" pat patting.

From women. Not just men. Women.

Not now dear, you'll get your turn later.

Oh dear, we've run out of stuff, we used it all before it was your turn.....pity. Oh well, maybe next time.

How the fuck we haven't burnt the world down is testament, truly, to social fucking conditioning.

Swashbuckled · 21/04/2024 13:23

@Snowypeaks

Yes, bizarre is exactly how it felt.
So very strange...

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 13:19

ATerrorofLeftovers · 21/04/2024 12:58

I suspect the real objection is that this board puts a spotlight on Labour’s actual position.

The problem is not that we’re misrepresenting Labour, it’s that we’re publicising their actual stance and actions. And that just won’t do, as otherwise how can the wool be continued to be pulled over voter’s eyes?

Absolutely spot on.

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 13:17

ATerrorofLeftovers · 21/04/2024 12:58

I suspect the real objection is that this board puts a spotlight on Labour’s actual position.

The problem is not that we’re misrepresenting Labour, it’s that we’re publicising their actual stance and actions. And that just won’t do, as otherwise how can the wool be continued to be pulled over voter’s eyes?

This. Ergo the ‘oh FGS, don’t be so pathetic think about the nhs, disabled, etc’

As if you can’t have more than one discussion point to vote on.

We know why people need to shut down women.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 21/04/2024 13:07

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 12:39

This illustrates my above point perfectly.

You know that thing that militant Labour supports say about Tories being 'alright jack as long as you have everything who cares about the rest of us' and they get very animated and vocal about it.

Well that.

Then going and saying you don't give a fuck about any other woman who may have legitimate reason to care about privacy, dignity and safeguarding because your perfectly happy and everyone else should be too, cos I'm alright Jack.

Its the stench of hypocrisy that alienates and winds people up.

I don't just see the selfishness. Its the evangelical moralistic lecturing that procedes it thats the truly problematic bit.

Its UGLY.

And totally lacking in self awareness.

I remember decades ago, with another election looming, saying to a friend that Labour & the Tories would both happily to see us die in the gutter but only Labour would stand over us & give us a moralising sermon as we lay there.

Floisme · 21/04/2024 13:02

If they had a properly clear and coherent position then they wouldn't get so shirty and defensive whenever it's raised.