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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

389 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/04/2024 18:41

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

A Labour of unrequited love | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

For many years now, women have appealed to the Labour Party to try to understand the fundamental clash between women’s rights and the unfair demands of the trans activist movement…

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
agent765 · 20/04/2024 22:40

Geebray · 19/04/2024 19:51

Labour will be back to TWAW as soon as they've won the election.

And in all other matters, all the parties seem the same.

I'm fed up with hearing Starmer saying Labour will cure the country's ills but doesn't say how even when asked directly.

I was brought up Labour, and have always voted Labour. I'm voting Tory (shudder!) in the next election purely because all the others will just shit all over women's rights.

The country is suffering many of the same woes as the rest of the world at the moment so NO party will be able to change many things.

I'd like to hear how Labour will come in and sort my other concerns such as the NHS but the only thing he repeats is that he will. With no inkling of how.

If Labour or any other party had a magic bullet they would be crowing about it. But they don't so I'll be voting on the TWAW and other women's rights issues.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/04/2024 22:25

It's a good thing women have been keeping receipts about what Labour politicians actually say isn't it?

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313?lang=en

I know that Streeting has publicly regretted his previous TWAW comments and the relentless bullying of women in the party for speaking out for women's rights and child safeguarding. But he's one lone voice. Too many of them have supported indefensible positions about the eradication of women's rights and language and safeguarding children.
Once they've found their integrity and start behaving like politicians, not activists, then maybe we'll be able to return to voting for them again?

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313?lang=en

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 22:21

They aren't removing any form of medical diagnosis, in fact they've said that medical diagnosis is key to the process

Actually they did, but they may well have rowed back on it now since they've back tracked on Self Id.

They are making the process more efficient, that's a good thing surely?

How is it inefficient? It is hardly onerous as it is and it is cheap.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 22:14

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 22:09

With respect yo your second question, I believe they are going to make it clearer when and how to apply the exemptions in the EA. And review the GRC process. Both a lot more than the Conservatives are committing to. But you know that.

You believe they are going to make it clearer, wow that instils confidence. Yes, they are going to review the GRC process to make it easier and remove any form of medical diagnosis, fucking brilliant.

I want to know exactly what they are proposing to do, I want it in black and white, why would they be so shy to spell it out?

Where have they said this? 99% they said

Well quite, and you can't see the glaring problem with this? Coupled with the further watering down of the GRC process?

They aren't removing any form of medical diagnosis, in fact they've said that medical diagnosis is key to the process Confused

They are making the process more efficient, that's a good thing surely?

songaboutjam · 20/04/2024 22:12

I don't trust a word of what Starmer says on the "definition of a woman" issue. He's proven himself to be weaselly (talk of "safe spaces" not "single sex" spaces), flip-floppy (rowing back now for example) and a total liar (implying women can have premises penises - - blame autocorrect).

Many of his MPs are on record as saying TWAW.

He has no convictions of his own. He'll say whatever is politically convenient. He will be incredibly vulnerable to the lobbying that will be the death throes of the trans rights movement.

I'm not likely to be in the UK during the election and making sure I can still vote will be a faff. Given the quality of the political offerings, my energies may be better spent elsewhere.

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 22:09

With respect yo your second question, I believe they are going to make it clearer when and how to apply the exemptions in the EA. And review the GRC process. Both a lot more than the Conservatives are committing to. But you know that.

You believe they are going to make it clearer, wow that instils confidence. Yes, they are going to review the GRC process to make it easier and remove any form of medical diagnosis, fucking brilliant.

I want to know exactly what they are proposing to do, I want it in black and white, why would they be so shy to spell it out?

Where have they said this? 99% they said

Well quite, and you can't see the glaring problem with this? Coupled with the further watering down of the GRC process?

EasternStandard · 20/04/2024 22:02

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 21:55

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female,

Is it indeed, that is not what KS has said nor is it what many of the Labour frontbench say, their stance includes TW.

will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

Pray tell how are they going to do this? Where have they said exactly how this will be achieved?

Labour change on this often but there’s no indication they’ve dropped the definition of legal female sex including males with a GRC

Also no indication of which spaces will be limited and how

lechiffre55 · 20/04/2024 22:02

If JKR was to stand as a candidate I think the result would really shock the idiots into finally taking notice. I'd pay my money to see that even knowing how rich she is.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 22:00

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 21:55

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female,

Is it indeed, that is not what KS has said nor is it what many of the Labour frontbench say, their stance includes TW.

will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

Pray tell how are they going to do this? Where have they said exactly how this will be achieved?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-woman-anneliese-dodds-b2382675.html

With respect yo your second question, I believe they are going to make it clearer when and how to apply the exemptions in the EA. And review the GRC process. Both a lot more than the Conservatives are committing to. But you know that.

I understand some Labour voters have been badly let down and don't believe them. But that doesn't excuse spreading misinformation.

Keir Starmer says ‘a woman is an adult female’ on self-identification system

Labour leader’s comments come after party rows back plans to introduce self-ID system for transgender people

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-woman-anneliese-dodds-b2382675.html

HappyEater · 20/04/2024 21:59

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:50

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female, will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

I understand why people are annoyed with them, but this post is factually incorrect and misleading.

Where have they said this? 99% they said

GailBlancheViola · 20/04/2024 21:55

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female,

Is it indeed, that is not what KS has said nor is it what many of the Labour frontbench say, their stance includes TW.

will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

Pray tell how are they going to do this? Where have they said exactly how this will be achieved?

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:53

And do you know what? I hated nu Labour. But after 14 years of increasingly despotic Tories, they look like halcyon days. I'd give my eye teeth to have Blair or Brown in charge instead of these nitwits. Starmer is very competent too.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:52

duc748 · 19/04/2024 23:01

Food banks.

NHS on its knees.

Schools literally crumbling.

Sewage in our rivers and water supplies.

Quite apart from anything, do you really have any confidence that Labour will do any more to fix these problems than the Tories? I don't. But if they can't treat women with respect and dignity, they don't deserve anyone's vote.

Yes. Because they fixed them last time they were in power.
I'm old enough to remember the dying days of the Conservatives in the 1990s - people dying on trolleys, horrendous NHS waiting lists, rough sleepers everywhere. That was all gone under nu Labour. The Tories brought it all back.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:50

Softycatchymonkeys · 20/04/2024 07:19

Labour’s stance on TWAW is, for me, so fundamentally wrong at such a core level of reality that I just don’t know how anyone could trust them with their vote, because it undermines everything else they say. If they can’t describe reality, then how can they govern a country?

This is not true. Labour's stance is woman = adult female, will protect single sex spaces for biological women only.

I understand why people are annoyed with them, but this post is factually incorrect and misleading.

AdamRyan · 20/04/2024 21:48

Cailleach1 · 19/04/2024 22:22

The NHS which lied to the police when a woman had been raped. The indoctrination which makes it easier for rapes and attacks on women. Stupid women for not wanting to be vulnerable, or wanting some dignity. huh.

Prisons which lock women up with rapists, other violent males and stressed out by the presence of males who say they too are women. Women getting extra punishment when not good likkle girlies and pretend the man is a woman as he wants. Lisa Nandy wants the special men to be able to go exactly where they want. If that means women suffer, who cares.

Education which is teaching made up, anti scientific, ideological balderdash. Bathrooms set up where girls in a state of undress have to negotiate intimate areas with teenage boys getting access. Stories of girls not wanting to go during their period in such circumstances, or depriving themselves of water so as not to have to be in that uncomfortable space.

Sports, funding, safe and fair access, representation in public life. Organise as a sex class for representation without hostility for not pretending we are a discrete class. The list goes on and on, and on ad nauseum.

That is on top of all the other stuff.

This all happened under the Conservatives and isn't particularly relevant to a conversation about Labour. Same for your following post.

IwantToRetire · 20/04/2024 21:33

And the problem is FPP in fact makes our voices and opinions more easy to overlook.

As in fact both main parties have within them many factions, who exert undue influence eg the ERG in the Tory party, I think anyone who says proportional representation gives smaller groups too much power, if over looking the fact that they already have. (Not forgetting TRA allies in parties).

And the system now means that internal party deals are behind closed doors.

If we have PR then it would be in the public domain who was barting what with whom.

For years I didn't vote because neither of the 2 mainstream parties represented how I felt. Then because of the notion that women had fought for the vote we should use it, I would vote for an independent candidate.

But now I cant be sure that any independent candidate supports women's sex based rights as it doesn't usually feature on leaflets.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 20/04/2024 10:41

Its not just the Labour party, its also all the trade unions. They've all shown us what they think of us.
I'm going to spoil my ballot instead of getting all angst ridden about who to vote for.

Floisme · 20/04/2024 10:12

The first time I helped campaign for Labour was in 1979. I was delivering Eve of Poll cards in what should have been a Labour stronghold and someone set their dogs on me. I mention it because it was the moment when I realised we were definitely going to lose and therefore a low point, but it was nothing compared to how I feel now.

I don't think I can put into words how let down I feel, not least by all the female Labour MPs who (with one or two honourable exceptions) have turned a blind eye to this. I sometimes wonder how many of them got where they are thanks to all women shortlists - but maybe that's for another thread.

I think I have every right to be angry. And every post I read telling me to pipe down and take one for the team makes me angrier still.

Cycleorrun · 20/04/2024 09:45

Yirk · 20/04/2024 07:20

Can't see a way out of this except a begruded vote for Labour ,as who else is there ?!

If there is no good, independent candidate I will spoil my vote. NONE OF THE ABOVE is a positive statement. If enough people abstain visibly on their ballot papers it sends a strong message.

WallaceinAnderland · 20/04/2024 09:21

3 of the 4 candidates, signed a pledge on trans rights that amonhst other nonsense called Woman’s Place UK and LGB Alliance "trans-exclusionist hate groups

That could be reported as a homophobic hate incident these days.

borntobequiet · 20/04/2024 08:11

thistimelastweek · 19/04/2024 20:56

This is a party that reaches out to racists.

Is that who you are?

The single issue campaign is cynical and insincere.

Don't buy in

We’ve been “bought in” to this for years. Labour hasn’t listened.

It’s not us who are cynical and insincere.

RedToothBrush · 20/04/2024 08:03

thistimelastweek · 19/04/2024 20:43

FFS.

This is all the Tories have got.

Single issues that their right wing press allies throw out to distract voters from everything else.

Like everything else.

Food banks.

NHS on its knees.

Schools literally crumbling.

Sewage in our rivers and water supplies.

And the list goes on....

What I think is staggering is that it's reduced to this argument.

Politics in this country is in such a state, that even despite all of this that the Tory party ARE responsible, women can't find a desire to vote FOR Labour. Wtf does that say about Labour?

Politics has become all about how we should be manipulated to vote for the least worse option even though none of the other parties respect women and really offer much for the interests of women.

All options are essentially a vote against women's interests and there's a whole bunch of women MPs in positions of power within these parties that are facilitating this for the own benefit of their careers rather than for the best interests of the public.

THAT is why public trust in politicians is at an all time low. Because almost every goddam last one of them is self serving and hasn't been prepared to speak out when they should have. And they continue to fail to do so now in most cases.

This is not ok to try and emotionally blackmail women into who they should vote for.

We should be demanding more and better from each and every party. Merely zombie like voting for them over and over again as the least worst option is not ok.

PamPamPamPam · 20/04/2024 07:53

thistimelastweek · 19/04/2024 20:43

FFS.

This is all the Tories have got.

Single issues that their right wing press allies throw out to distract voters from everything else.

Like everything else.

Food banks.

NHS on its knees.

Schools literally crumbling.

Sewage in our rivers and water supplies.

And the list goes on....

What a ridiculous comment.

If someone was trying to smear me as a racist, let's say, they would have a hell of a job of proving it because nothing I say or do points to me being racist.

The Labour Party have led a sustained and misogynistic attack on women for the last decade. The Tories do not need to develop a smear campaign to prove this because it's true. There is absolutely no way of getting away from this. Labour MPs have called women vile names for standing up for their and for children's rights. They have made their intentions with regards to the Equality Act etc very clear.

They have tried to gaslight an entire nation into disregarding biological fact. This is not a single issue. It goes to the very heart of a blind adherence to a flawed ideology that has caused and has the potential to continue causing significant harm to 50% of the country's population. People are scared for their children, their rights, their jobs and their right to free speech.

Do not minimise women's rights and women's issues. Would you tell any other marginalised group in society to shut up and put up with a political party that is literally trying to redefine their existence on the planet? It is a huge issue.

Yirk · 20/04/2024 07:20

Can't see a way out of this except a begruded vote for Labour ,as who else is there ?!

Softycatchymonkeys · 20/04/2024 07:19

Labour’s stance on TWAW is, for me, so fundamentally wrong at such a core level of reality that I just don’t know how anyone could trust them with their vote, because it undermines everything else they say. If they can’t describe reality, then how can they govern a country?