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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election

389 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/04/2024 18:41

Why should these women, or any woman, restrain their anger or sweeten their bitterness? Children have been seriously harmed because those same women were ignored — granted not only by Labour politicians, but the women in those parties are right to expect that theirs are the politicians who should most apologise, because they turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to the left-wing women who still did not desert them for doing so.

I think any request for women to restrain such angry outbursts shows a level of class prejudice and snobbery. Working class women, for example, are often categorised as not being very clever or strategic when they express anger, as though they are too lacking in intelligence to restrain themselves. The suggestion being that spontaneous anger is a limited and limiting response. It is unfair to say women are right to be angry about what has happened but “not that angry” or “not like that.”

Isn’t it the case that incandescent rage splattered over social media gathers the attention of politicians in a way that a privately furrowed brow and a stern letter does not? Likewise, feeling hopeful and grateful at the first sign of political breadcrumbs scattered in the direction of women, is not the same as dragging them into the open and making them apologise and commit to firm and concrete reparation of harms done. Honest righteous anger yields better results sometimes, than quiet, patient strategic waiting, which might not. Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election. Permit them their rage.

Part of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love/

A Labour of unrequited love | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

For many years now, women have appealed to the Labour Party to try to understand the fundamental clash between women’s rights and the unfair demands of the trans activist movement…

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-labour-of-unrequited-love

OP posts:
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WickedSerious · 21/04/2024 12:06

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 10:31

Starmer has used two conflicting lines

The adult female one and penis one. Which one is the lie?

And he’s very keen not to see the issue raised with the ‘no one’s talking about it’ line

The very last thing he wants to do is respond accurately to direct questions

Edited

There's more backbone in a fucking blancmange.

AGlinnerOfHope · 21/04/2024 11:48

I’m getting to the point of thinking I’ll vote Tory mainly to annoy Adam.
I wish Adam would realise that the worst thing she can do for Labour is keep bigging them up. It’s proving very counterproductive.

We have mayoral elections at the moment, and the most qualified candidates by a long way are the labour and conservative ones- the others are beyond useless.
The Conservative is marginally better qualified.

Snowypeaks · 21/04/2024 11:44

WallaceinAnderland · 21/04/2024 11:30

The thing that stops me voting Labour is what they are not saying about womens rights.

All Starmer needs to do is say that women are adult human females and that they should continue to have the right to single sex services and provision separate to males that they have always had.

That's it. That's all he needs to say so why doesn't he?

What is stopping him speaking a simple truth that will win him all the votes? It seems such an obvious, easy thing to do so why isn't he doing it?

I can't figure it out, something else is going on here.

Either he's a true believer in GI OR he doesn't think women's rights matter enough to risk antagonising the Labour genderists. Given that Wes Streeting has performed a public U-turn ("performed" being the operative word here), why couldn't his boss?

You are right to be wary.

Floisme · 21/04/2024 11:38

Another point I raised with my canvasser was the party's behaviour towards Rosie Duffield and the Labour Women's Declaration. She looked slightly panic stricken and I'm not sure whether it was because she knew she didn't have a leg to stand on or because she had no idea who I was talking about.

I'm sympathetic towards canvassers because I've done it myself, but that was the stage where I'd always been instructed to say, 'If you don't mind, I'm going to make a note of what you've said and ask ..... (the candidate) to contact you.' And she didn't.

Cailleach1 · 21/04/2024 11:32

It’s almost as if there are like minded Lord Ha Ha’s who are spreading disinformation. They are simply pushing lies, using smoke and mirrors, to suit a narrative, for whatever reason. I don’t feel as generously that they are gullible, or well meaning any more. Mind you, ‘twas never well meaning towards women. In my opinion, they are just liars.

WallaceinAnderland · 21/04/2024 11:30

The thing that stops me voting Labour is what they are not saying about womens rights.

All Starmer needs to do is say that women are adult human females and that they should continue to have the right to single sex services and provision separate to males that they have always had.

That's it. That's all he needs to say so why doesn't he?

What is stopping him speaking a simple truth that will win him all the votes? It seems such an obvious, easy thing to do so why isn't he doing it?

I can't figure it out, something else is going on here.

Snowypeaks · 21/04/2024 11:25

Swashbuckled · 21/04/2024 10:50

Just had the Labour canvasser at my door. Told him my current views and concerns about Labour. He was smiling throughout. I asked him about the smiling, explaining I felt this to be a very serious issue. And that I wanted him to take my views back with him, which he said he would.

I asked him his own view on single sex spaces. He said he didn’t feel he could have an opinion as he was a man, and it was a women’s issue. I explained why he needed to raise his awareness. He said he wasn’t aware really of the issues I was raising. He asked me if I could point him to places where he could brush up his knowledge. I think he was humouring me, and trying to present a face of amenable humility on the doorstep.

He said I was the only person to have raised this. I don’t think he took me seriously and think he saw me as some far outlier. It was disappointingly weak encounter.

Sounds very like my little chat with a local Labour canvasser. He didn't claim no-one was talking about this, but he did try to imply that it was Labour who had stopped men being routinely housed in women's prisons. Definitely attempting to humour me, though, as you say. I couldn't get through to him.
Bizarre.

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2024 11:21

I agree, a clear majority disagree, once they know it means males who retain their penii.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:19

In fact the polling suggests that is the majority view.

Just so there is an attempt at clarity on these threads this isn’t correct.

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:16

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 11:12

So you do think TW can be considered ‘women’ @AdamRyan

Ok, I get it now. You were pretending before

You’re perfect for Labour.

Edited

It’s a bit hard to keep track especially when they say ‘GC’ in other posts but TW are women in some

Yes very Labour

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:14

June 2023

Less than a third of Brits say transwomen should be allowed in female-only spaces and sports

The poll, undertaken by an independent polling company, asked 1,802 adults over 18 whether organisations should be allowed to exclude men who identify as women from female-only provision in a range of situations.

It clarified that: “a transwoman is a person who is biologically male, but who identifies as a woman. They may or may not decide to have cosmetic surgery such as breast or genital surgery”.

The findings explode the myth that there is widespread support for using the law to force organisations to include males within the female category.

It’s time for the pp to retire the falsehood that ‘majority agree with them’

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 11:12

So you do think TW can be considered ‘women’ @AdamRyan

Ok, I get it now. You were pretending before

You’re perfect for Labour.

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:10

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:08

Rude and unnecessary.

You don't get to speak for "all women" either.

I know full well there are women who cannot use mixed sex spaces, and I care about not excluding them from being able to use public toilets / changing rooms etc.

I don't care if you think I was rude. I think you're selfish. 🤷‍♀️

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:08

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:07

Not the etiquette to pull posts across threads. Single sex spaces are important to me. Personally though idgaf about TW using the ladies. And I'm entitled to my own view on that.

Selfish in that you don't care about those women who cannot use mixed sex spaces.

Throwing other women under a bus doesn't make you look good. But you do you.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:08

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:06

We don't care what you think. Other women's rights to have single sex spaces are not yours to give away.

Rude and unnecessary.

You don't get to speak for "all women" either.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:07

NecessaryScene · 21/04/2024 11:02

Which spaces do you mean exactly?

Mixed-sex ones presumably? Because "single sex spaces are important to me".

Not the etiquette to pull posts across threads. Single sex spaces are important to me. Personally though idgaf about TW using the ladies. And I'm entitled to my own view on that.

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:06

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:05

Come on. You know you have to define "women".
I'd answer toilets for men and women, but I don't care if TW are considered women in that context. Lots of women feel the same. You are ignoring us.

We don't care what you think. Other women's rights to have single sex spaces are not yours to give away.

Snowypeaks · 21/04/2024 11:06

I'll happily share any space with a man who claims to be a woman that I would share with a man who doesn't. So not single sex services, sports or spaces.

A woman who claims to be a man has as much right to be in women's single sex spaces as any woman.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:05

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:00

This poll is Jan 2024 YouGov

I think the pp is being misleading when offering up what the majority might think

What people really don’t want is gender neutral only, that is a strong reaction against mixed sex

Come on. You know you have to define "women".
I'd answer toilets for men and women, but I don't care if TW are considered women in that context. Lots of women feel the same. You are ignoring us.

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:03

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:00

They haven't said that at all. They've said they won't take any action that undermines the protections in the EA. As the EA protects all women from discrimination that's a good thing.

The idea of the Tories "updating" it is frankly terrifying, especially in the light of their rhetoric around sick leave this week.

Honestly. That bit of the debate really is turkeys voting for Christmas. Like Brexit. They've done a number on you and convinced you something really damaging for women is somehow in your interests.

You want to vote for that, knock yourself out. Who needs maternity rights anyway? The Americans seem to do fine without them Confused

I am fucking sick to the back teeth of the left lot on here claiming that we're all going to vote Tory. It's lazy thinking and really fucking rude, given how many times you've been told that many of us have nobody to vote for.

And stop telling me what I think or believe. It makes you look arrogant.

NecessaryScene · 21/04/2024 11:02

Which spaces do you mean exactly?

Mixed-sex ones presumably? Because "single sex spaces are important to me".

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:02

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:00

They haven't said that at all. They've said they won't take any action that undermines the protections in the EA. As the EA protects all women from discrimination that's a good thing.

The idea of the Tories "updating" it is frankly terrifying, especially in the light of their rhetoric around sick leave this week.

Honestly. That bit of the debate really is turkeys voting for Christmas. Like Brexit. They've done a number on you and convinced you something really damaging for women is somehow in your interests.

You want to vote for that, knock yourself out. Who needs maternity rights anyway? The Americans seem to do fine without them Confused

That’s ok a few of us think the same with Labour and your allegiance.

Turkeys

Done a number etc

EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 11:00

This poll is Jan 2024 YouGov

I think the pp is being misleading when offering up what the majority might think

What people really don’t want is gender neutral only, that is a strong reaction against mixed sex

Some women won’t accept breadcrumbing, until they are sure the Labour loaf won’t be mouldy come the General Election
AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 11:00

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 10:52

At least it's likely they'll do it. You're claiming that repealing the GRA is the only way to fix it. It isn't, and it looks to be in the manifesto, which is good news.

Labour aren't offering that. They've explicitly said they won't.

They haven't said that at all. They've said they won't take any action that undermines the protections in the EA. As the EA protects all women from discrimination that's a good thing.

The idea of the Tories "updating" it is frankly terrifying, especially in the light of their rhetoric around sick leave this week.

Honestly. That bit of the debate really is turkeys voting for Christmas. Like Brexit. They've done a number on you and convinced you something really damaging for women is somehow in your interests.

You want to vote for that, knock yourself out. Who needs maternity rights anyway? The Americans seem to do fine without them Confused

NoWordForFluffy · 21/04/2024 11:00

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 10:52

You can read it by clicking the link then immediately going airplane mode.

Government sources said Mrs Badenoch was among those who recognised that “if we can’t do it in this Parliament it is something that many MPs want to see in our next manifesto”.

Pretty vague to be honest. We will see. Bring on the GE.

But it's clear they do actually get it. Unlike Keir '0.1%' Starmer, who's too busy trying to be all things to all people (including his own MPs) to get the whacking great splinters out of his arse.