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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Asking a school what their policy on gender questioning children is?

67 replies

CiaoBe · 16/04/2024 08:25

Has anyone done this?

I know what it is in reality (affirm behind parents back, change name and pronouns without parental knowledge)

But after the cass report I'd like to ask them what it is in writing.

I'm considering making a complaint.

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LogicLoverLlama · 18/04/2024 08:58

RhymesWithOrange · 18/04/2024 06:23

Good luck OP! I am doing similar with a residential college my daughter is going to for sixth form, so all the usual safeguarding stuff plus boarding considerations.

They have a combined equalities policy that states anyone should use the facilities that aligns with their gender identity but they don’t define what they mean by gender identity. Remember that “trans” isn’t a thing someone is, it’s something someone does. The definition in EA2010 is a person with the characteristic of gender reassignment. Question them on what they mean by “trans” and “gender identity” because neither exists in law.

i am in month three of emailing the head of safeguarding who at one point told me that she wasn’t responsible for safeguarding. I screenshot their published safeguarding policy which names her…! But still no useful answers.

The legal advice linked earlier as well as the threat that any parent could take the legal option and the names governors teachers and headmaster is PERSONALLY reasonable is the email you need to send. It’s their literal head on the line.

themidimit · 18/04/2024 06:27

Perfect28 · 18/04/2024 06:15

I might be wrong but I don't think schools have to have a specific policy on this? Other policies might be relevant; safeguarding, RSHE but I don't think there is a specific one.

This is correct. It's a minefield for schools too

RhymesWithOrange · 18/04/2024 06:23

Good luck OP! I am doing similar with a residential college my daughter is going to for sixth form, so all the usual safeguarding stuff plus boarding considerations.

They have a combined equalities policy that states anyone should use the facilities that aligns with their gender identity but they don’t define what they mean by gender identity. Remember that “trans” isn’t a thing someone is, it’s something someone does. The definition in EA2010 is a person with the characteristic of gender reassignment. Question them on what they mean by “trans” and “gender identity” because neither exists in law.

i am in month three of emailing the head of safeguarding who at one point told me that she wasn’t responsible for safeguarding. I screenshot their published safeguarding policy which names her…! But still no useful answers.

Perfect28 · 18/04/2024 06:15

I might be wrong but I don't think schools have to have a specific policy on this? Other policies might be relevant; safeguarding, RSHE but I don't think there is a specific one.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/04/2024 06:11

One further thought. It's worth pointing out to the schools that they are interfering in your ability to protect your child.
Only the courts can remove parental rights. If their child is taken into care. parents still keep those responsibilities and continue to be involved / consulted. Working with parents has been a basic principle of safeguarding since the 1989 Children Act.
By socially transitioning a child in secret, a school defies that principle. The new draft guidelines for schools about gender questioning children are very clear:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/04/2024 22:35

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 21:51

Do you know if I would be able to record the meeting? Do I need to ask permission?

Yes you need to ask if you want to record it - they may be reluctant. You could ask if they would have a note taker? You could take a friend to make brief notes or, just have a pen ready and take a moment after their responses to make a note.
Reflect back to them: "So it was the Head of Year who decided to transition her?" (make a quick note) etc.
It is hard to ask questions, listen and make a note so don't worry if you can't.
Just reflect back to them what they've said. "You're saying that the Head of Year didn't take advice from their line manager / Headteacher?"

What I would suggest is that after the meeting go and sit quietly as soon as possible afterwards and write down as much as you can remember - answers, phrases used, information. Doesn't have to be exact.
Then, depending what you want to do, you could send them an email confirming what you think they've said:
"To confirm, you told me that the HoY decided to socially transition **. They spoke with the SENCO & tutor, sent a memo to all staff about name changes and pronoun use. They did not seek the Head's permission or inform me" etc.

Finish by asking them to confirm that they agree that this is an accurate record of the meeting.

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 21:51

Do you know if I would be able to record the meeting? Do I need to ask permission?

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CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 21:50

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/04/2024 19:50

Have you written down what you want from the meeting CiaoBe?
Just a few thoughts (from someone who's been on the other side of meeting with parents when things have gone wrong in schools).

Which staff were involved in transitioning my daughter?
What records were kept of discussions individual staff had with her?
How were other staff communicated with about the school's decision? Please supply a copy of anything written to staff about my child.
Who made the decision not to inform me?
What were the reasons the school had for not informing me?
Were any other agencies consulted about her? Which ones? Did anyone from an external agency meet with my daughter?
What school policies informed your decision?

Relevant school policies might be:
Equality diversity policy
Anti bullying policy,
Pastoral care policy
Safeguarding policy
Confidentiality policy
Policy on gender non conforming children

These should be on their website.

Also ask for a copy of their complaints policy - you don't have to use it but it lets them know that you're prepared to.

Hope this is useful? Just ignore this if it's not helpful.

Oh my gosh. That is INCREDIBLY helpful.

Thankyou so much.

I'm going to write over the weekend some notes about what I want from the meeting and that is just extremely helpful. Thankyou so much.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/04/2024 19:50

Have you written down what you want from the meeting CiaoBe?
Just a few thoughts (from someone who's been on the other side of meeting with parents when things have gone wrong in schools).

Which staff were involved in transitioning my daughter?
What records were kept of discussions individual staff had with her?
How were other staff communicated with about the school's decision? Please supply a copy of anything written to staff about my child.
Who made the decision not to inform me?
What were the reasons the school had for not informing me?
Were any other agencies consulted about her? Which ones? Did anyone from an external agency meet with my daughter?
What school policies informed your decision?

Relevant school policies might be:
Equality diversity policy
Anti bullying policy,
Pastoral care policy
Safeguarding policy
Confidentiality policy
Policy on gender non conforming children

These should be on their website.

Also ask for a copy of their complaints policy - you don't have to use it but it lets them know that you're prepared to.

Hope this is useful? Just ignore this if it's not helpful.

IcakethereforeIam · 17/04/2024 19:06

Flowers tell them up front that you're likely to get tearful. Don't be embarrassed, you've every right. Remember to take hankies.

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 19:01

IcakethereforeIam · 17/04/2024 17:30

There's no shame in tears (I cried once when picking up a prescription).

I'm definitely going to get emotional. My DDs been through alot and I'm so mad that they let this happen.

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IcakethereforeIam · 17/04/2024 17:30

There's no shame in tears (I cried once when picking up a prescription).

SaltPorridge · 17/04/2024 17:28

Hugs @CiaoBe
I have a meeting with the MAT I work for. I will be with you in spirit.

Keep requesting the policies.
Ask who signed off the change to your child's name and pronouns.

Write down the questions you want to ask. If you don't feel able to speak, you can point at the question.

Courage.

ISeeTheLight · 17/04/2024 17:18

Interesting. Incidentally, I was double checking the admissions criteria for the secondary school we're hoping to get DD into (currently Y5 so need to apply from September). The admissions page states this which I thought was pleasantly surprising:

"Why should I consider an all Girls’ school for my child?
Freedom from Stereotypes
In a Girls’ school, there is no stereotyping and gender-weighted expectations. Girls are free to recognise their strengths and excel in subjects which have traditionally been dominated by boys. At school names we see a much greater balance between the Arts and Science subjects and female success in Maths, Physics, Sport and Technology."

Has anyone come across other schools that state this? I would hope that this also influences how they deal with gender-questioning pupils. It's an all girls catholic state school in the North East.

LogicLoverLlama · 17/04/2024 17:08

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 17:06

Thanks for the support BTW.

I actually have bad anxiety and it's hard to push this.

I completely understand your position and it's not a very comfortable one. It's hard to be the first one to put your head above the wall, very hard, easier for someone else to do it, but you're taking these steps and doing a genuine service to every single child at that school, not just your now, you need applauding

LogicLoverLlama · 17/04/2024 17:07

IcakethereforeIam · 17/04/2024 17:04

I'm in the same situation as you. In fact, I thought it wasn't worth bothering, that they wouldn't answer me as I would no longer have a child there. I suppose though, come September it has to be worth a punt.

As a parent of an ex pupil you have every right to make a scene about this, do so

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 17:06

Thanks for the support BTW.

I actually have bad anxiety and it's hard to push this.

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CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 17:05

IcakethereforeIam · 17/04/2024 17:04

I'm in the same situation as you. In fact, I thought it wasn't worth bothering, that they wouldn't answer me as I would no longer have a child there. I suppose though, come September it has to be worth a punt.

Maybe email them under the guise of the parent of a prospective new student?

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IcakethereforeIam · 17/04/2024 17:04

badgeronthedrums · 16/04/2024 17:39

I will be doing the same next year once my daughter has left (but for now we need them to write the UCAS references...)

I'm in the same situation as you. In fact, I thought it wasn't worth bothering, that they wouldn't answer me as I would no longer have a child there. I suppose though, come September it has to be worth a punt.

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 17:04

LogicLoverLlama · 17/04/2024 17:01

It must BE written down - it must BE safe and useful and appraised so WHY won't they share it?

Don't even give them a moment to think this might die down. You need it in writing, you need to know if it has been reappraised in light of the Cass review, you need to know, as a concerned parent if the legal advice you have seen applies to the guidance and to your child.

I've emailed and said I want it emailed to me before Friday so I can read it over the weekend, before Mondays meeting.

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LogicLoverLlama · 17/04/2024 17:01

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 16:10

In my email I asked twice for a copy of the policies or guidelines they'd been following, to be sent to me.

He replied with a meeting offer.

But didn't mention the policies.

Should I email back and say 'could you please send the policies over before the weekend so I have a chance to look at them before the meeting?'

I have a feeling they don't have anything in writing to follow.

Which is even more concerning isn't it?

That each teacher is just winging it?

Or they don't wnat to share it?

It must BE written down - it must BE safe and useful and appraised so WHY won't they share it?

Don't even give them a moment to think this might die down. You need it in writing, you need to know if it has been reappraised in light of the Cass review, you need to know, as a concerned parent if the legal advice you have seen applies to the guidance and to your child.

Leafstamp · 17/04/2024 16:51

Bumping this thread as I think it's really important that parents know what their children are learning and that schools are held to account.

badgeronthedrums · 17/04/2024 16:19

Just keep asking.

And the best advice I was ever given when I was having difficult conversations with schools for other reasons is that you don't have to sort it all out in one meeting. The best thing to do - and particularly if they are not sending you stuff - is to go in and listen and say very little yourself. Don't even ask for anything. Just take notes and then say thank you, I will be considering what you have said and we can have another meeting when I have thought about it/consulted people/you have sent me the fucking paperwork.

CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 16:10

In my email I asked twice for a copy of the policies or guidelines they'd been following, to be sent to me.

He replied with a meeting offer.

But didn't mention the policies.

Should I email back and say 'could you please send the policies over before the weekend so I have a chance to look at them before the meeting?'

I have a feeling they don't have anything in writing to follow.

Which is even more concerning isn't it?

That each teacher is just winging it?

Or they don't wnat to share it?

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CiaoBe · 17/04/2024 13:51

I have a meeting Monday.

I'll be back later as I think I need help in what I need to say.

I'm going to take notes in with me.

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