Debate happening in House of Commons: Victoria Atkins on fire

hazandduck · Today 12:22

I posted on here a couple of years ago about a girl who tried to attack me when I said I wouldn’t affirm if my child claimed to be trapped in the wrong body, I’d support and seek counselling for them, she went ballistic this was in real life it was terrifying.

I had a similar real life experience, I was shouted and bawled at and called a homophobic bigot, I just stopped mentioning it to people, unless they brought it up. I was on another talk site and saw a thread about the issue and dipped in, expecting trans zealots, but it was mainly GC, with a few trans cheerleaders.

A group of us felt forced out by the owner and some TRA bods, so someone suggested Mumsnet and here I am.

(The classic example always given is "I didn't say you stole my wallet". Place emphasis on each word in turn, and see how the meaning changes. Words, in the mouths of the untrustworthy, are weasels*.)

That’s such a good example! Thanks.

I hadn’t either. But she’s been a member of the Women and Equalities Committee since July 2023.

Anyway, good for her.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25865/lia_nici/great_grimsby

This is the McCarthyism bit

Threatening your livelihood

People dobbing others in. To do with biological reality. It was extreme then and it is now

I can’t believe the way it’s taken hold and many are fine with that

It's a bummer @BritishBeatleMania isn't it. I felt like a terrible coward. It was a random comment by one of my kids that freaked me out . Basically ' I agree with Graham Linehan but I'd never say so in an open forum , I'd be torn to shreds' or words to that effect.
So I felt it would be selfish of me to carry on.

The kids said it would all go the way of Emo and such. But God it seems to take forever.

Same @Abhannmor under a previous guise I was very involved. Twitter, campaigns, meetings, the works. I had a sudden panic about my husband and kids. It wasn’t just me that was at risk. I then took a job and it turns out that could be at risk if my true feelings were known.

anyway, I deleted everything connected to my public terfing. I still talk about it when the opportunity arises, but I’m not front and centre. I settle for gardening.

although I’ll watch at work, if the opportunity to use Cass to push back a bit arises I will.

From me too. This is the scandal

Providing hormone blockers to children is wrong; encouraging and giving cross-sex hormones to children is wrong; and encouraging breast binding for children is wrong. In the future, I believe we will look back on this scandal—and it is a scandal—with incredulity about how we did this to our children, especially our girls.

Thank you, Alexnder Stafford.

The official report has totally changed the meaning, hasn't it @Arabella? Because yes - tone, and emphasis, DO matter.

Any actor (or indeed politician) can tell you how to completely alter the meaning of a sentence by emphasising a single word. And there are some sentences which can alter in meaning multiple times, because emphasising each word in turn changes what has been said.

(The classic example always given is "I didn't say you stole my wallet". Place emphasis on each word in turn, and see how the meaning changes. Words, in the mouths of the untrustworthy, are weasels*.)

*Apologies to all weasels - I know you are mighty hunters and wonderful mothers etc, but your intelligence and agility have led to you being considered untrustworthy, historically speaking.

Fortunately for me the Non-Crime Hate Speech laws don't extend to libelling mustelids.

Edit to add @ArabellaScott because otherwise no-one would know what I was replying to.

Robin Millar on Wales:

"...in Wales the pathway for young people diagnosed with gender dysphoria includes referral to gender services in England. The Cass report also warns against teachers being forced into making premature and effectively clinical decisions about affirmation, such as social transitioning, and yet that is implicit throughout the Welsh Government’s LGBTQ+ action plan and their compulsory relationships and sexuality education curriculum. Does the Secretary of State agree that these findings have relevance for the safeguarding of children in England and Wales? Does she agree that parents, teachers and health workers across England and Wales can expect politicians to take heed of these findings?"

... about supporting people who have gone through the process and are trying to detransition, she is absolutely right that they need particular care. I am actively looking into what NHS England needs to provide to look after the very complex needs that such people have.

Good to hear Atkins has detransitioners (and hopefully their families) in mind. There will need to be help, care and support for some who have been harmed and/or failed in recent years.

hazandduck
I’m so so thankful for everyone who has persisted at great personal cost and to all the posters making me feel like there is a safe space to hold these views and my sanity. I’ve honestly doubted myself thinking at times am I the baddie?? Am I on the wrong side?? But thank you everyone who has helped me maintain and uphold the truth I always knew would out.

I totally agree with this, and I'm sorry you had such a shitty response from people. It really does frighten me how many people are ignoring common sense in favour of this, and then attacking anyone who points that out. It seems like some sort of collective madness.
I keep thinking this shouldn't be happening in an open democracy - people being attacked for disagreeing - and yet it is, time and time again.

Wings over Scotland has been noting discrepancies between the record of Holyrood and filmed footage recently, as an aside.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-mutability-of-history/

Can't help but agree with your comment there Arabella.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/about

'Hansard is a “substantially verbatim” report of what is said in Parliament. Members’ words are recorded, and then edited to remove repetitions and obvious mistakes, albeit without taking away from the meaning of what is said.'

'Substantially verbatim' sounds to me like 'a bit pregnant', but there you go.

Always thought it was verbatim, too. @ArabellaScott .

I wonder who decides which bits to edit out/ paraphrase etc

Marsha de Cordova with a good point re adult care (I'm c&ping from Hansard, so it's an approximation*):

'...does the Secretary of State agree that the review of adult gender services should take into account the number of patients with mental health challenges, such as depression, anxiety, autism, self-harm, eating disorders and many others? What additional resources will be put in place for mental health provision?'

*I was quite shocked to find Hansard was edited, rather than verbatim! But it is.

(and also nice to see MdC sitting with Rosie. I hope the MPs who've had such a rough ride are getting some support from their peers).

That is scathing!

I'd never heard of Lia Nici, but I'll keep an eye open for her now.

Edit as autocarrot stuck its oar in

(Response from VA:

"...this is about not just the debate within the NHS, but what happens online. I know that parents of children affected by this are very aware of the online “grooming”, as they describe it, of children on social media. I do not want to trespass for the time being on the regulators—we have already had some constructive conversations with them—but the will of the House is clear that we expect the report to be followed and clinicians to act on the basis of that evidence." )

I'm really appreciating her approach. She's very good value to watch.

Holy moly, I missed this, from Lia Nici:

"Let’s be honest, Secretary of State, this excellent review exposes institutionalised grooming and abuse by so-called “professional” medical people. What is she going to do to make sure that people pushing this from day one are, as a minimum, now going to be on the sex offenders list and taken off being able to practise as medical people?"

Did she sing it in the style of Elvis?

A little less conversation, a little more action, please
All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark

"They don't like hearing their words back at them, Mme Deputy Speaker, they don't like it."

😁

I'm still catching up and watching the debate in bits and bobs. Enjoyed this from Victoria Atkins:

Interestingly, Opposition Members are chuntering from sedentary positions. I think that we can make a real change, but a little less sniping from the sidelines and a little more constructive work is needed.

@hazandduck - that's awful and you didn't deserve it. I posted JKR's first essay about this on FB and was promptly jumped on by people saying TWAW. I'm actually a little grateful for that because it led me to go and find out more about the issue, which led to a much better understanding of it and led me to MN, where I found a lot of people much better at articulating the problems with it than I am.