Page 22 | Debate happening in House of Commons: Victoria Atkins on fire

nauticant · 15/04/2024 20:22

15.66 NHS England in its letter has committed to realising the ambitions of this study beyond the life of the Review. As a single integrated health service, which for the period in question had one provider of specialist gender care for children and young people, the NHS offers a world leading opportunity to look at outcomes for c.9000 patients and add to the evidence base.

nauticant · 15/04/2024 20:21

I have a feeling that someone has jumped the gun there. In the Cass Review report, 9000 seems to relate to the number of children and young people who went through GIDS. Which won't necessarily be the number who were given puberty blockers.

Original poster

BonfireLady · 15/04/2024 20:19

oldwomanwhoruns · 15/04/2024 20:14

The figure of 9000 was quoted by someone in parliament today (sorry can't remember who), which is the same figure which the gang were quoting on The Mess. Sorry I've not read Cass (yet).

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It was Nick Fletcher from memory.

It's so stark when you realise how many people have been subjected to unevidenced care. Obviously it's possible/likely that not all 9000 went on to take any kind of medical intervention but until the follow-up data is examined, nobody knows the scale of the harm. And that's just the children under GIDS. There will also be many young adults in the 17/18-25 bracket whose fate will be known later when the review of adult services starts.

OP posts:

lonelywater · 15/04/2024 20:16

theDudesmummy · 15/04/2024 20:13

@Datun I am not convinced they will give up that easily. They have had some pretty hefty backing, completely aside from the "trans child" issue, which is now hopefully debunked. They may well regroup with some different angles. I wouldn't underestimate the determination of men with sexual motives...

they absolutely won't give up. These nutters are going down with the ship and it won't be pretty.

oldwomanwhoruns · 15/04/2024 20:14

comfyoldcardi · 15/04/2024 19:28

I have been searching the final report but can't find this information: Can anyone point me to the actual numbers of children given puberty blockers since around 2015 (when these issues were beginning to be raised by whistle blowers)? Has this been broken down by NHS/private clinics?
It would be very handy to have this on my notes by the front door when the canvassers come round.
TIA

The figure of 9000 was quoted by someone in parliament today (sorry can't remember who), which is the same figure which the gang were quoting on The Mess. Sorry I've not read Cass (yet).

theDudesmummy · 15/04/2024 20:13

@Datun I am not convinced they will give up that easily. They have had some pretty hefty backing, completely aside from the "trans child" issue, which is now hopefully debunked. They may well regroup with some different angles. I wouldn't underestimate the determination of men with sexual motives...

Datun · 15/04/2024 20:07

theDudesmummy · 15/04/2024 20:01

Although the AGPs can surely now detach themselves from the children's health issue (which was just a smokescreen/collateral damage for them from the outset) and plough their own furrow, being largely a far more powerful group of people than mentally ill children, namely middle-aged white men? They aren't going to go away are they? What now for them?

Now they're just middle aged cross-dresses. Not a group to whom you need to give extra rights.

Signalbox · 15/04/2024 20:06

VA seemed pretty determined that the likes of Helen Webberley and Aidan Kelly would not be able to ignore Cass.

mrshoho · 15/04/2024 20:05

Wonderful commentary! Thank you all. I'm a little emotional reading. We all knew the enormity of this scandal happening before our eyes to our children and young people. Thank god it's been halted. Too late for many but hope for the future. I do feel legal action is coming and these politicians know it.

theDudesmummy · 15/04/2024 20:01

Although the AGPs can surely now detach themselves from the children's health issue (which was just a smokescreen/collateral damage for them from the outset) and plough their own furrow, being largely a far more powerful group of people than mentally ill children, namely middle-aged white men? They aren't going to go away are they? What now for them?

sashagabadon · 15/04/2024 19:59

It’s all over bar the shouting ( in England at least)

Runor · 15/04/2024 19:59

Someone (who knows what they’re looking for) needs to go through the MP’s registered interests and make very clear which MP’s have taken money, hospitality etc to support this ideology

redredreds · 15/04/2024 19:58

Mermaids surely can't continue after this? Not possible,
surely?

FlakyPoet · 15/04/2024 19:55

mateysmum · 15/04/2024 19:41

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, we can truly say that today is the day that "no debate" is finally over.

Indeed. Part of me thinks though…. I’ve been here before, feeling hopeful, only to have those hopes dashed…. But you are right, we haven’t quite been here before. It feels like a watershed moment.

Maverick197 · 15/04/2024 19:49

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2024 18:20

Dennis Noel Kavanagh AT Jebadoo2
Rosie Duffield now, begins by quoting Hannah Barnes and citing extreme activists, some in political parties. Slams Stonewall law.

"This is the moment for apologies and humility" says Secretary of State of campaign of harassment against Rosie Duffield.

"What happens at GIDS will go down as one of the worst medical and safeguarding scandals of our generation" says Miriam Cates MP

"This scandal happened because too many adults put their desire for social approval above the welfare of children" - Bloody well said Miriam Cates MP

Can I beg any MP in the chamber now please, please, please mention the institutional homophobia of GIDS. This was mainly young lesbians medicalised and staff joked "soon there will be no gay people left". This should be said.

Dawn Butler MP repeats misinformation regarding 100 studies not being including in the Cass report. This is a lie and attracting derision in the chamber.

Secretary of State responds robustly to misinformation from Dawn Butler MP "Some campaigners are trying to build up a head of steam to say this report is flawed, it is not"

Sammy Wilson MP condemns the "vile campaigns" against those raising questions over the Tavistock and calls for the purging of the "transgender lobby" from gender medicine.

"This scandal happened because too many adults put their desire for social approval above the welfare of children" - Miriam Cates MP

Amen to that! It's astonishing that so many politicians/celebrities/doctors/teachers etc. have gone along with this crazy ideology because they didn't want to be labelled transphobic.

mateysmum · 15/04/2024 19:41

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, we can truly say that today is the day that "no debate" is finally over.

MurielThrockmorton · 15/04/2024 19:37

Greens have Jenny Jones, who's great and has had some grief herself, and Natalie Bennett, former leader, who is TWAW in the HoL. Caroline Lucas honestly is too bright to really believe TWAW surely but she's in Brighton so there'd be uproar if she didn't toe the (bonkers) Party line.

Datun · 15/04/2024 19:32

BonfireLady · 15/04/2024 19:28

The AGPs who have worked their way in to influencial roles aren't just going to give up and walk away with their tail between their legs (pardon the pun)...

We're going to see some extraordinary scenes playing out when they have their tantrums and people gain the confidence not to capitulate.

Absolutely.

But now I think it will result in theatre, not policy.

newtlover · 15/04/2024 19:30

soupfiend · 15/04/2024 19:13

Whats happening with the Greens, I dont know if they have MPs do they?

Im only following it on here sorry

And who is LRM?

the Green Party leadership have been conspicuously silent about Cass because they have been completely captured by their young activists (see Scotland)

soupfiend · 15/04/2024 19:30

BonfireLady · 15/04/2024 19:28

The AGPs who have worked their way in to influencial roles aren't just going to give up and walk away with their tail between their legs (pardon the pun)...

We're going to see some extraordinary scenes playing out when they have their tantrums and people gain the confidence not to capitulate.

I agree, I think that any changes to MH interventions for children/adults who hate themselves so much it leads to this concept about changing sex/gender/whatever will be packaged by TRAs as the equivalent s28

LizzieSiddal · 15/04/2024 19:29

I missed this debate so thank you so much for all the posts. So pleased to see so much consensus across the House. Still makes me angry that many have been speaking, shouting and screaming about this for many years and the people in charge didn’t want to listen.

Original poster

BonfireLady · 15/04/2024 19:28

The AGPs who have worked their way in to influencial roles aren't just going to give up and walk away with their tail between their legs (pardon the pun)...

We're going to see some extraordinary scenes playing out when they have their tantrums and people gain the confidence not to capitulate.

OP posts:

comfyoldcardi · 15/04/2024 19:28

I have been searching the final report but can't find this information: Can anyone point me to the actual numbers of children given puberty blockers since around 2015 (when these issues were beginning to be raised by whistle blowers)? Has this been broken down by NHS/private clinics?
It would be very handy to have this on my notes by the front door when the canvassers come round.
TIA

LizzieSiddal · 15/04/2024 19:27

theDudesmummy · 15/04/2024 19:23

This is all tremendous. But I am finding it difficult to believe that it took Cass, great as she has been, to convince so many people that they were entirely wrong, when it was in fact blindingly obvious all along. Did they really believe it before? Do they really disbelieve it now? Or was it all just expediency? Do people realise how batshit it all looks?

I don’t think they believed it but they were too cowardly to open their mouths before they had the Cass report to wave about.

lonelywater · 15/04/2024 19:26

soupfiend · 15/04/2024 19:13

Whats happening with the Greens, I dont know if they have MPs do they?

Im only following it on here sorry

And who is LRM?

LRM. Lloyd Russell Mole. Labour MP. Swivel eyed loon. Guzzler of gender Koolaid by the bucket load. Bully. In any cunt Olympics, Mole would be a medalist, possibly gold medalist. The notion of him calling for less heat in the debate (as I gather he did today) puts him on a par with Ruth Hunt in the massive hypocrite stakes.