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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hadley Freeman on Cass Report

37 replies

Cooroo · 14/04/2024 07:19

In The Times today. I've copied it all because it is so good.

[Redacted by MNHQ for copyright reasons]

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OnHerSolidFoundations · 14/04/2024 13:36

Hadley as ever sums it up perfectly 👏

ChateauMargaux · 14/04/2024 12:25

Great article.. I wish the numbers of boys and girls who were given puberty blockers were shared.

ApocalipstickNow · 14/04/2024 11:49

handskneesandbumpsadaisy · 14/04/2024 10:32

I understand what you're saying. I remember saying to my husband that for girls it's so scary, the moment you're old enough to attract the male gaze, you're also considered responsible for it too.

Yes, that’s it.

cordeliachaseatemyhandbag · 14/04/2024 11:31

Well done Hadley.

This really is a national scandal.

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 11:30

Floisme · Today 10:13

Thanks for copying op and for the archive link, although I have to disagree with you SinnerBoy - she was excellent on the fashion desk, that was where I first noticed her.

Oh, I don't disagree, I just meant that she's a really good serious journalist.

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 11:28

Swashbuckled · Today 09:55

Thanks SinnerBoy 😊 I need to subscribe to continue reading.

Oh, that does happen sometimes and I just click the X on the box. It's not doing it for me with that one, maybe it's a setting. But don't ask me, I don't actually know!

TammyOne · 14/04/2024 10:42

This is totally outrageous when I’ve had friends denied sterilisation (post children) unless their husbands agree, or denied hysterectomy for endo because they’re ’not old enough’ - Wtaf
Not to mention the total lack of care for actual female medical problems ( endo etc). I waited a year for a gynae outpatient appointment. That’s the standard wait apparently. Perhaps I should have asked for a fake penis instead.
Anyway, great article, I will be sharing it with everyone I know.

dreadisabaddog · 14/04/2024 10:35

Thank you for sharing- fantastic article

handskneesandbumpsadaisy · 14/04/2024 10:32

ApocalipstickNow · 14/04/2024 08:42

It’s slightly off topic (but still relevant), but I’m pulling these quotes out-

It’s difficult for men to understand how scary sex is for many teenage girls.
I think this is true. I was about 10 when I learned what sex involved and it was a very distressing thing. I also remember being shown porn mags round about the same time, by other kids (boys) and feeling fear. I don’t really know why but I don’t know if learning about sex is the same for boys and girls, if the way they feel is the same. I don’t think people really talk about it beyond how it’s a bit cringe, but I think there’s a link with the next bit-

Being a teenage girl is complicated, your body suddenly attracting adult male attention, but your brain still that of a child

I just don’t think boys experience being viewed as a sexually available person from being so young, and I think it does mean they have a blind spot about how girls feel about growing up.

I haven’t organised all my thoughts on this properly, but I have a 10 year old daughter, so lots of this is floating around my brain these days.

Anyway, TLDR if there was greater understanding of girl’s experiences of growing up we might enable safer times for them, because adding gender identity issues on top of everything else is just more pressure.

I understand what you're saying. I remember saying to my husband that for girls it's so scary, the moment you're old enough to attract the male gaze, you're also considered responsible for it too.

mrshoho · 14/04/2024 10:23

Brilliant 👏

Floisme · 14/04/2024 10:13

Thanks for copying op and for the archive link, although I have to disagree with you @SinnerBoy - she was excellent on the fashion desk, that was where I first noticed her.

Swashbuckled · 14/04/2024 10:07

@Igneococcus

Excellent! Thank you so much 😊

Swashbuckled · 14/04/2024 09:55

Thanks @SinnerBoy 😊

I need to subscribe to continue reading.
I've copied and pasted the original post and shared it, so all is not lost. (Just think some people are more influenced when they read it in the original layout.)

Thanks again 🙂

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 09:43

Swashbuckled · Today 08:56

Thank you; this is excellent, and what I have been hoping to read more of. Does anyone have a link to the article that bypasses the paywall? I'd like to share it.

This seems to be the one:

https://archive.ph/URY5I

My goodness, wasn't she wasted in the fashion pages!

soupfiend · 14/04/2024 09:23

Benjaminsniddlegrass · 14/04/2024 09:01

Bravo Hadley. I have posted this before but we have multiple care experienced young people in the authority I work with who identify as trans, all of whom will have experienced abuse and trauma and many of whom are ND. One stands out in relation to this article, is a young woman who was sexually abused as a child and then experienced rape as a teenager
She was even able to articulate how she felt she was a man because women are victims and get hurt and harmed. And yet sadly the narrative from professionals is that we should affirm her desire to visit Turkey and have her breasts cut off. Heartbreaking.

I hope that the Cass Review can now allow us to safely have nuanced and thought through discussions in the wider professional networks.

Same here. I was incandescent yesterday when I was reading a thread, cant remember which one, where a female MP who had previously been advocating and supporting gender transtion/reassignment etc for young people lumped in that she was listening to the experts and included the NHS and 'social services' with this.

My god, we have to speak in hushed tones at work to disagree with this shit.

ApocalipstickNow · 14/04/2024 09:10

Otter2 · 14/04/2024 09:07

She is so clear here - all of those pricks pushing this ideology should be made to read this.

Yes, what did you think of it Mishy?

Otter2 · 14/04/2024 09:07

She is so clear here - all of those pricks pushing this ideology should be made to read this.

Benjaminsniddlegrass · 14/04/2024 09:01

Bravo Hadley. I have posted this before but we have multiple care experienced young people in the authority I work with who identify as trans, all of whom will have experienced abuse and trauma and many of whom are ND. One stands out in relation to this article, is a young woman who was sexually abused as a child and then experienced rape as a teenager
She was even able to articulate how she felt she was a man because women are victims and get hurt and harmed. And yet sadly the narrative from professionals is that we should affirm her desire to visit Turkey and have her breasts cut off. Heartbreaking.

I hope that the Cass Review can now allow us to safely have nuanced and thought through discussions in the wider professional networks.

Theydontknowaboutus · 14/04/2024 08:59

Excellent article - so clear. Thanks for posting.

Swashbuckled · 14/04/2024 08:56

Thank you; this is excellent, and what I have been hoping to read more of.

Does anyone have a link to the article that bypasses the paywall? I'd like to share it.

Duckinglunacy · 14/04/2024 08:50

mb2512cat · 14/04/2024 08:07

Please take a look at this. This is what the NHS is offering mentally unwell young women: as well as double mastectomy, hysterectomy (keyhole!) it is offering genital surgeries to approximate male genitals plus planning phalloplasties! I would like to know if this involves flaying the woman’s arm to make what? The mind boggles.

“A metoidioplasty is an operation that results in the creation of a small Neophallus, by straightening and lengthening a hormonally enlarged clitoris.We also offer the option of simultaneously having a laparoscopic hysterectomy which is keyhole surgery involving the removal the womb (uterus), including the neck of the womb (cervix) and salpingo-oophorectomy (removal of the fallopian tubes and ovaries).”

”We are setting up provisions to provide phalloplasty and further information on this surgical provision will be published shortly.”

https://gendersurgery.chelwest.nhs.uk/

This is totally outrageous when I’ve had friends denied sterilisation (post children) unless their husbands agree, or denied hysterectomy for endo because they’re ’not old enough’ - Wtaf, how does the NHS get to be so bloody misogynistic in totally different spheres?

ApocalipstickNow · 14/04/2024 08:42

It’s slightly off topic (but still relevant), but I’m pulling these quotes out-

It’s difficult for men to understand how scary sex is for many teenage girls.
I think this is true. I was about 10 when I learned what sex involved and it was a very distressing thing. I also remember being shown porn mags round about the same time, by other kids (boys) and feeling fear. I don’t really know why but I don’t know if learning about sex is the same for boys and girls, if the way they feel is the same. I don’t think people really talk about it beyond how it’s a bit cringe, but I think there’s a link with the next bit-

Being a teenage girl is complicated, your body suddenly attracting adult male attention, but your brain still that of a child

I just don’t think boys experience being viewed as a sexually available person from being so young, and I think it does mean they have a blind spot about how girls feel about growing up.

I haven’t organised all my thoughts on this properly, but I have a 10 year old daughter, so lots of this is floating around my brain these days.

Anyway, TLDR if there was greater understanding of girl’s experiences of growing up we might enable safer times for them, because adding gender identity issues on top of everything else is just more pressure.

soupfiend · 14/04/2024 08:28

WarriorN · 14/04/2024 08:16

It's excellent, She posted these images on Twitter from her book:

God Ive been banging on about the comparisons with anorexia and gender stuff for ages, I hadnt realised she had written this.

I had a post removed the other day on the Norwich millenium library thread where I joked that I was setting up an exhibition about how fantastic celebrating physical interventions to support anorexia was. But its EXACTLY the same, why not celebrate self harm if we are celebrating....erm..... self harm?

weebarra · 14/04/2024 08:27

Love Hadley, she writes with such clarity!