SelfID law passed in German parliament.

Possibly. Especially as it's convoluted - earlier this year new treatment guidelines came out that are very much in the affirmative mode, and only GC voices on Twitter noticed that they'd been downgraded from the highest ("evidence-based") category to a more speculative one. Also, AFAIK all insurance funding of trans medicine is currently up in the air after an NB claimant failed in court trying to get treatment paid for. The coalition agreement stipulates full takeover for all GAC costs so that should get interesting, especially since questions on reimbursement policy are normally taken by an independent board.

Wow, that's massive news! Needs its own thread probably?

Just updated the other thread as well. The German Medical Association just voted a resolution to disallow self-ID for under 18s. That's pretty big news.

https://twitter.com/segm_ebm/status/1789001105214759378

I'm bumping this to tie in with a recently created thread.

Thanks, I read the article that is linked within the Emma report, about the candidate's description of the event.
When he candidates "as a woman", he is asked by the board members about how far he transitioned, and how he feels, and replies that this is not about his feelings. That according to their own statute, declaring himself a woman is enough to candidate for the women's spot.

They must have been so conflicted, being called out like that and having it highlighted how easy it is to "misuse" this rule. That's why they had to let him on the ballot, otherwise their own construct would have fallen down and they would have been out of the official party guidelines. It's clear they weren't really believing him, either, but too scared to call Emperor's new clothes.

The latter decision by the parties' own court is indeed completely absurd. But in fact it could have contributed to the parliament bill - they just moved the self-declaration to another sphere: If the party should go by GRC-alike declaration in the population register, then the GRC must be easy to obtain - and they moved it to Germany's administrative sphere.

In that sense, the Greens went against their own rules with the Markus/Tessa Ganserer-example, as @Delphin said.

Somebody mentioned the Linkspartei. This is their youth organisation in action at a pride parade a couple of years back. Very stark contrast with the dissident group around Sahra Wagenknecht (alas not an option for federal elections since they're also full of nutters beholden to Putin - one of them posed next to camouflage-clad Donbass pseudo-separarists back in 2015 or 16.)

Actually I'm almost certain there was a transman candidate for Bundestag somewhere (don't recall name or land) and that this was in fact the third trans candidate, not another TW. That said, she evidently didn't make the cut-off, so wasn't placed high enough on the party list to begin with. Go figure.

The Green Party position on self-identification into lists is even more deliciously absurd BTW. Just last year their Bundesschiedsgericht, or top internal arbitration tribunal, decided that pure self-declaration on the spot actually isn't sufficient for a male candidate to apply for a women's spot - said male's gender identity needs to be at least semi-permanent (this was after an MRA type and overall opponent of women's quotas tried to be nominated for a City government post): https://taz.de/Gruener-kandidiert-als-Frau/!5919837/.

Two years before that there was another incident where a gender-critical Green man, David Allison, similarly self-declared at a nominating assembly in Baden-Württemberg. He was permitted to stand, received a few votes but didn't make the list. He then had the temerity to leak the story to the staunchly GC feminist Emma magazine and was subsequently fired from his job working for the local Green member of the Landtag. https://www.emma.de/artikel/gruener-mann-entlassen-338959

Another interesting GC-blog I found is that of Rona Duwe. Her articles often are published in both English and German, and otherwise it’s worth it to run them through a translation program, as they are very solidly argued.
https://www.ronalyze.de/p/abschaffung-der-rechtlichen-kategorie#%C2%A7abolition-of-the-legal-category-woman-in-germany (both in German and English below)
Her speech at a protest in front of parliament.

This is the latest text and listed at the end are legal options:
https://www.ronalyze.de/p/das-selbstbestimmungsgesetz-in-deutschland

There are three ways a case can be brought to the constitutional high court, due to the self-ID law being contrary to the constitution.

Rona Duwe also links to a blog that further discusses the legal options and lays out why the law is unconstitutional:
https://www.rechtsgutachtensbgg.de/

Additionally, people need to be watchful about the medical transition of children. Despite the Cass report, some German commissions who lay out the treatment guidelines, act very captured, too. There is one doctor in this commission who is against it (and aghast), he was interviewed by the magazine Emma:
https://www.emma.de/artikel/trans-kinder-ein-medizin-skandal-340959
and Rona Duwe about the logical fallacies of the argumentation:
https://www.ronalyze.de/p/the-trans-child-narrative

Thanks very much @Brefugee for starting the thread; the more I read up about what’s happening in Germany the more I think I’ve landed in some dystopian novel.

Before the bill passed, there were some safeguards in an earlier draft. Due to strong lobbying, they were removed. There is an open petition online by TRA and I was flabbergasted to see who signed in and was in favour of removing women’s rights.
This is the TRA petition, signed by (amongst others, the full list is on that page in a separate link)
https://innn.it/jazuselbstbestimmung

(signed by)
President of the German Women’s Association (!!) (“Deutscher Frauenrat”)
CEO of the national association of womens’ advice center / womens’ helpline
A member of the German Female Lawyer’s Association
A member of the board of the Protestant Women in Germany
Many shelters and helplines for women in various cities
Pro Familia, an influential organization that was very good about abortion rights and information for teenagers / young people in need (probably like Planned Parenthood)
An organization that fought against traditional roles and for neutral toys for children (against the blue for boys, pink for girls-concept) – that was to mean every child can play with cars, lego, dolls and dress-up, I didn’t expect it to mean removal of protection and rights for girls and women.

There are also individual people who signed, for example Teresa Bücker, who wrote for Die Zeit and other magazines, published a feminist magazine Edition F and other activities. I thought she was a feminist, apparently not anymore.

@Delphin It’s so strange, people vote for the Greens to support protection of the environment, reduction of resource use for the economy and freedom from traditional male/female societal roles, and you blink for one second and they’ve voted to take away half of your civil rights.

@OldCrone about conscription: this might prove another breaking point, as additionally the German MoD mulls reintroduction of a conscription army on a general basis (which was abolished some years ago to be replaced by voluntarily enrolment only) or at least conscription according to the Swedish model, where not everyone of a certain age is automatically conscripted.

Though the previous model was men-only, and women can join, but are not required to. New models might use another mode.

Additionally, someone under hormone treatment and with surgery scars poses a great risk in an actual battle, as they might require extra medication and wound care, and if there is an actual war, the medication or material might not be available anymore.
Of course people might have other issues that require medication (diabetic, for example) but these are medical needs and not voluntarily taken up.

Die Linke also aim to have 50% women on their lists. I'm not aware (yet) of TW taking those places, but in a party with a 70% male membership, I wouldn't be surprised to see it soon. Particularly if they get hammered in the eastern state elections and become a rump metropolitan party in Berlin and Hamburg.

There have been quite a few prominent women defecting in the recent split, which doesn't surprise me. It's certainly the case that the most loudly politically correct element of the party has strong brocialist tendencies.

It doesn't help either that the current female co-leader Janine Wissler got her political training in the German franchise of Britain's own SWP.

See also female socialisation, which does affect transmen, however much they want to deny it, and not putting yourself forward. Part of the very reason for having reserved places to begin with.

Not to mention that transmen would have to compete with (biological) men, with male socialisation, very much putting themselves forward, and generally more political and social experience.

@Chersfrozenface : But then in the age group that most MPs are in, MtF transsexuals are the largest group. FtM prominently known I couldn't name a single one in the 40 to 60 bracket, MtF at least half a dozen.

How very not surprising.

@Chersfrozenface : As far as I know, none.

So 3 transwomen (legally so or self identified) took up 3 of the spaces reserved for women on the Greens' list.

How many transmen were there on their list?

I've looked around for a thread on the German Self ID law, but couldn't see one here. Looks like I didn't scroll far enough down. :-) There is no equivalent forum in Germany, so the might be more German women coming here...

On German media:
There's also the weekly DIE ZEIT, of which I am a subscriber (one of the largest weeklies, politically centist-left).
The printed edition is generally balanced, bringing articles and commentary from both sides of the debate.
The online portal is less balanced, especially concerning moderating reader comments. I assume that the moderator brigade is generally bunthaarig (blue-haired) and under 30...

The worst part of their site is "Ze. tt", the part aimed at young people. One can only describe it as fully captured. In more than one way, i. e. "woke" talking points are their bread and butter. No way to place even a slightly gender critical comment there, I nearly lost my account and was banned for a week.

I tried to place a mention of WPATH files and the Cass report under a pro-self-ID law commentary in the ZEIT part last week , but it was not publicised (deleted, not moderated, i. e. its not in my comments history. Not for the first time. I have started to copy-paste all my comments into a word file, to be able to fight the moderator decisions). I might CC the Editors office in, to get on their nerves!

@ConstructionTime :
"Additionally, the Green Party traditionally reserves half of their election list spaces for women (on all levels of elections, from communal to national) (iirc they alternate between men and women), and the TW from the photo earlier and a third one took up three of these spaces on the national level. "

Tessa Ganserer actually is not a TW in the legal sense. TG is self-identified and has no GRC (the German equivalent). TG is legally still a man and is listed in Bundestag files as "Tessa (Markus) Ganserer". TG said that the Transsexuellengesetz needed to be reformed before he would apply for a german GRC. This case was one of the things that made me look into the queering of politics and inform myself about transgender politics.
Well, I might write to Ganserer and ask him to put his money where his mouth is, or otherwise to step down and make way for a biological woman on the women's list.

PS: I don't know why my reply was hidden, FYI there were links to German women groups in them, not my own pages or anything.

I agree with the overview, and there have been more reports these years about reporters being attacked, which I don't recall as much from the past.
Also far-right parties sometimes like to restrict access by media, despite it being a tradition that journalists can cover such events.

As for the protest movement against the self-ID law, I found some groups, RadFems in Berlin

https://radfemkollektivberlin.net/

and LSquad Berlin

https://linktr.ee/lsquadberlin
https://www.lsquadberlin.de/
The latter is a German version of Let Women Speak, Lasst Frauen sprechen, probably there are more groups than just in Berlin.

Additionally, the Green Party traditionally reserves half of their election list spaces for women (on all levels of elections, from communal to national) (iirc they alternate between men and women), and the TW from the photo earlier and a third one took up three of these spaces on the national level.

In German national election law, the percentage a party receives of the votes determines how many people from the list are then elected, meaning that voters cannot select particular people from the list or change the order that the party has set out.

I saw that today, too. And very interesting framing. I saw the Tagesschau-Version: It's a study by the United Nations Population Fund.
In this newspiece, the large photo at the top is from Germany (or another German-speaking country) about protests against patriarchy.
The part of the study the news text focuses about is about women's health, safe pregnancy and sanitation, and then about patriachal societies where women can't say no.
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/weltbevoelkerungsbericht-frauenrechte-un-100.html

While women's health is certainly a big topic in Germany as well, this is not on the same level as unsanitary conditions and lack of access to clean water.

I think the header photo doesn't match the rest at all. Also no irony about "women's rights under threat".

The UN-report itself is here:
https://www.unfpa.org/swp2024

Listened to the news again, different news reader, only talking about the rights of women and children, but mentioned it was a UN study.

While listening to German radio the news just came on. They had a piece about women's rights but framed it as such:

"A study commisioned by ... showed that the rights of women, girls and 'gender diverse people' are under attack world wide".

You couldn't make that up. Didn't hear who commisioned the study, but will pay attention should it be mentioned on the hour.

They used the expression "Geschlechtsdiverse Menschen" which in this case I would translate (and have) as "gender diverse". Of course, that is an oxymoron as there are two sexes, not ninety billion genders.