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Original poster

Labour infighting over trans issues reignited by Cass Review

488 replies

IwantToRetire · 11/04/2024 01:43

But Rosie Duffield, a Labour MP placed under investigation by the party last year for campaigning against gender ideology, pointed out that women who had exposed the scandal had been “blanked, sidelined and dismissed” by male leaders simply for speaking up.

And feminist Julie Bindel demanded an apology from Mr Streeting for failing to support her gender-critical views when he was president of the National Union of Students.

In reply to Ms Bindel’s accusation, Mr Streeting replied: “From memory (16 years on, so correct me if I’m wrong!) I replied to confirm that you weren’t on NUS’ no platform policy and as this was in relation to a motion passed by the autonomous women’s campaign I was not empowered to overturn it (not least as a male president!).”

This prompted Ms Duffield to retweet the (Les Streeting) statement, with the message: “To the many women blanked, sidelined, dismissed by male leaders when speaking up and exposing this for years.”

And Ms Bindel wrote: “Glad to see you are now openly critical of the gender ideology that led to the atrocities against children outlined in the Cass report.

“I am open to accepting an apology from you. In 2008, when you were NUS president, I was no-platformed alongside five fascist groups for ‘transphobia’.

“I contacted you and asked for your help. You gave none. I asked you to condemn those that had orchestrated the no-platforming, and you refused.

“Have you any idea of the reputational damage this caused me? How it gave others permission to no-platform, denounce and defame me?
“How it meant that I could be slandered by other organisations, and so many, many universities around the UK and elsewhere? If this sounds bitter then good, because I am.”

To this message, Ms Duffield said: “Thank you for leading us all here Julie. Without you, most of us wouldn’t have had a clue what had been happening to children who were far too young to have the critical faculties or agency to consent.”

Extracts not full article in Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/10/labour-infighting-over-trans-issues-reignited-cass-review/

Also at https://archive.ph/IfNp8

Earlier thread about Wes Streeting https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5047018-wes-streeting-labour-shadow-health-secretary-pledges-support-for-the-cass-reviews-evidence-led-recommendations-and-our-determination-to-put-childrens-health-and-wellbeing-above-the-political-fray

Labour women tear into Wes Streeting as Cass report ignites fresh trans row

MP Rosie Duffield and author Julie Bindel call out shadow health secretary over failure by male leaders to listen to gender-critical women

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/10/labour-infighting-over-trans-issues-reignited-cass-review

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
Datun · 15/04/2024 10:45

Yes, tempting though it is to warn women about disrupters, de-railers and twits in general, HQ will often take a dim view.

I guess they think one should just personally ignore it. Which works, obvs.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/04/2024 10:34

They definitely have fallen foul of the rules before and women have got a slap on the wrist for posting on them.

Floisme · 15/04/2024 10:33

I've just done an advanced search for those 'public service announcement' threads and nothing came up. I will draw my own conclusions.

BezMills · 15/04/2024 10:07

I think someone has had an itchy trigger finger! It's probably easier than justifying the bullshit labour take on 'whether women as a sex class even exists'

Floisme · 15/04/2024 10:06

There used to be a long running 'Public service announcement' thread that discussed these kinds of issues and posting patterns in a very helpful way. I've not seen it for ages and I'm not sure what happened to it - maybe that too fell foul of the rules in the end?

KellieJaysLapdog · 15/04/2024 10:05

Weekend staff are more prone to using the delete button, it might be worth asking the Monday office hours staff about it?

Either via email or by making a post in Site Stuff?

NoWordForFluffy · 15/04/2024 08:20

Keeprejoining · 15/04/2024 08:09

I've had a warning about trolling, as well. Seems that pointing out deliberate derailing is going to get you a deletion

You were told then? I only found out because I clicked on the link in the 'You've been thanked' email and it took me to a deleted post! 🤷‍♀️

NoWordForFluffy · 15/04/2024 08:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AVindicationOfFeminists · 15/04/2024 08:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Keeprejoining · 15/04/2024 08:09

I've had a warning about trolling, as well. Seems that pointing out deliberate derailing is going to get you a deletion

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 15/04/2024 01:01

NoWordForFluffy · 14/04/2024 22:00

I believe we have somebody in our midst who loves hitting the report button.

Were you told you'd been deleted? I was deleted on another thread (no idea what was in the post!) and wasn't told. I don't think all deletions are equal on the run up to a ban.

Show quote history

I have contacted MNHQ to ask why and to explain exactly what it was that I said. Given that quite a few threads have posts where people have got quite heated I cant understand why an opinion that reflects my experience of being on some threads should be censored. Sad

I did look up the MN guidelines which didn't clarify anything but was interested to see they have a policy on trolling https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trolls and it made me wonder whether they should have one for mansplaining?

Troll Policy | Mumsnet

Mumsnet's policy on trolls and trolling on our forums. Find out how we handle this type of poster through moderation and our definition of trolling.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trolls

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 14/04/2024 22:15

IwantToRetire · 14/04/2024 22:08

I believe we have somebody in our midst who loves hitting the report button.

Just imagine if we all reported to MNHQ when someone on a thread told you they didn't agree with what you are saying - or even that you dont understand how it is relevant to a thread.

MNHQ would be over whelmed.

It's a well known TRA tactic. Just saying! 🤔

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 14/04/2024 22:08

I believe we have somebody in our midst who loves hitting the report button.

Just imagine if we all reported to MNHQ when someone on a thread told you they didn't agree with what you are saying - or even that you dont understand how it is relevant to a thread.

MNHQ would be over whelmed.

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 14/04/2024 22:00

IwantToRetire · 14/04/2024 21:16

Its funny how expressing one's opinion can lead to have your post deleted.

And yet at the same time be told that the point of a thread is for poster's to express their own opinions.

But as this is the second time I have had a post deleted for expressing an opinion that someone didn't like, I will have to decide whether to risk a third deletion and then be shut out of FWR.

Or decide that the deletions are in fact a badge of honour as it indicates that were near the truth so had to be hidden.

I believe we have somebody in our midst who loves hitting the report button.

Were you told you'd been deleted? I was deleted on another thread (no idea what was in the post!) and wasn't told. I don't think all deletions are equal on the run up to a ban.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 14/04/2024 21:27

@MrsOvertonsWindow said

I do agree OP. It's also worth remembering as a general point (not relating to any particular poster) that if someone's posts have a continued anti woman bias, relentlessly criticise other women for amongst other things wrong think, repeatedly describe views and women as right wing bigots etc, then those posters are likely not the women, feminists, mothers, sisters etc that they claim to be (as Mumsnet likes to remind us)

Yes this is what my post was about, but has been deleted. So stating an actual response to posts is not allowed, so effectively MNHQ is telling us we have to play by the rules the rules of others that we are finding disruptive and alienating.

OP posts:
Original poster
IwantToRetire · 14/04/2024 21:16

Its funny how expressing one's opinion can lead to have your post deleted.

And yet at the same time be told that the point of a thread is for poster's to express their own opinions.

But as this is the second time I have had a post deleted for expressing an opinion that someone didn't like, I will have to decide whether to risk a third deletion and then be shut out of FWR.

Or decide that the deletions are in fact a badge of honour as it indicates that were near the truth so had to be hidden.

OP posts:
Floisme · 14/04/2024 14:54

It's a long, long time since I was canvassing for Labour but not only was there no script, you were also instructed not to get into long conversations, let alone arguments. The purpose was strictly to record potential voters so you could target the 'don't forget to vote' campaign on Election Day. A lot might have changed since then though.

DrBlackbird · 14/04/2024 13:47

IcakethereforeIam · 14/04/2024 09:43

Is their any information on the bloke himself? Why is he so invested in pushing trans? How has he made his money?

In all of this I have become increasingly aware and disappointed at how many gay men happily throw women under the trans bus. Wes Streeting for one. Will he, is he, genuinely rethinking this? One truly hopes so despite Streeting being formerly employed by SW. I’m still cautious as I don’t see many other Labour MPs coming forward. Doesn’t Raynor have a good TW friend? It’s all become so personal for them.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2024 11:58

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/04/2024 11:42

I presume it's "the script".
Respond to all questions about women's rights & child safeguarding with "You're the first person to mention it"
Utter clowns.

Show quote history

If it's in the script then it proves that nobody is the only one mentioning it.

I'd really love it if anyone who campaigns for Labour could confirm whether there is a script or not, and ideally leak the script on the internet.

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 11:43

I wouldn't be at all surprised.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/04/2024 11:42

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 11:39

MrsOvertonsWindow · Yesterday 15:00

+ + Well, I could tell they wished I'd not mentioned it. 🤣 + +

I had one canvasser reverse back down the garden path when I started challenging him about his party's appalling record on all this.

Wasn't it Yvette Cooper who said it was no problem and that nobody had ever mentioned it to her on the doorstep. Rapidly followed by a number of women contradicting her, saying that she'd told them TWAW wasn't up for debate and to educate themselves?

I presume it's "the script".
Respond to all questions about women's rights & child safeguarding with "You're the first person to mention it"
Utter clowns.

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 11:41

Anyway, there's a decent Observer article on Cass today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/14/cass-review-gender-identity-services-children-young-people

Just how badly wrong things went at the gender identity development service (Gids) is evidenced in the fact that Cass felt she had to explicitly state that, while some people argue that clinical care for children should be based on a “social justice” model, “the NHS works in an evidence-based way”. That should never have been up for debate: as the British Medical Journal argued in its editorial on the Cass review last week, it is deeply unethical to provide untested medical interventions for children that lack evidence of benefit, yet are life-altering and come with potentially very significant harms.

Quite how the fact that it needs to be stated that a medical service works, or should work, in an evidence based way, almost beggars belief.

The Cass review: an opportunity to unite behind evidence informed care in gender medicine

At the heart of Hilary Cass’s review of gender identity services in the NHS is a concern for the welfare of “children and young people” (doi:10.1136/bmj.q820).1 Her stated ambition is to ensure that those experiencing gender dysphoria receive a high st...

https://www.bmj.com/content/385/bmj.q837?s=08

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 11:39

MrsOvertonsWindow · Yesterday 15:00

+ + Well, I could tell they wished I'd not mentioned it. 🤣 + +

I had one canvasser reverse back down the garden path when I started challenging him about his party's appalling record on all this.

Wasn't it Yvette Cooper who said it was no problem and that nobody had ever mentioned it to her on the doorstep. Rapidly followed by a number of women contradicting her, saying that she'd told them TWAW wasn't up for debate and to educate themselves?

Keeprejoining · 14/04/2024 11:22

Humans seem to need religion, and GI has conveniently filled a gap in our agnostic society.
Can see parallels with Catholicism .

A gendered soul waiting to be inserted into a body at birth. transubstantiation of the flesh, martyrdom, and a catechism - TWAW.
Finding enlightenment through bodily suffering.
It's got a lot of religious aspects.