Labour infighting over trans issues reignited by Cass Review

Yes, this.

This is why the LabourUK subreddit is full of hatred for Labour - they are the hardcore lefties who want to lob rocks from the sidelines, they don’t want to be part of the establishment, which happens as soon as Labour win.

They are LOJ and his BFFs.

And Blair got Murdoch's backing pre-'97 election, however distasteful some Labour supporters found that.

There was a fascinating documentary about Blair's Labour and his Murdoch links a while ago. Worth a watch.

Tony Blair is the only Labour leader in my lifetime to have properly understood this.

He may have been thinking, "Oh shit, are we the baddies?" for a while, but I think it's quite clear that the Cass review has given him the confidence to come out and say that he, and by implication Labour, may have got this wrong.

Here we have Dr Hilary Cass, a consultant paediatrician in the much-beloved NHS, i.e. someone voters are more likely to want to listen to than any politician, basically saying, "Stop the train, it's heading in the wrong direction."

I think Wes Streeting is also now reading the writing on the wall and realising that Keir "1% of women have a penis" Starmer, Lisa Nandy, Angela Rayner, Nadia Whittome, David Lammy, Stella Creasy and all the others who have said absolutely batshit insane things and dismissed all non-believers as bigots do not have the backing of the public.

I've just been reading a bit more about Wes Streeting. I think he sees himself as a future prime minister and he could well be. He's a proper working class Londoner which will appeal to traditional Labour voters. He's gay, which will appeal to more socially liberal voters. He's clearly very bright. He's also a career politician and only 41 years old, which means he's got his eyes on more than just the next election but on the long term.

At times I've been unimpressed with his dithering over this issue, but he could be the person to take Labour in a more sensible direction and make them a party I could vote for at some point in the future. Let's see.

No, I'm aware of that.

But as you say, if they're losing their hardcore supporters (which members are, as they're paying to support them), they need to appeal more broadly to the electorate in general (even to the 'wrong kind' of voter, i.e. Sun reader, as per the article). That is something which Labour (party and supporters) don't appear to like, I think.

Ultimately, the country is pretty centrist overall, appealing to the masses means having a centrist lean.

Just because they are losing members doesn't mean they will lose the election. They are still doing well in the polls, mainly I think because people now want the Tories out at all costs.

Perhaps someone at HQ will have the necessary intelligence and awareness to point out that Labour party members aren't going to be the ones who win or lose them this election, and so when it comes to gender - or Israel vs Palestine, for that matter - they need to tap into what the broader electorate actually thinks and feels, rather than their own members.

Labour expelled female members concerned about that medicalisation and said they didn’t want us to vote for them, Conservative's didn’t

On Never Mind the Ballots, Mr Streeting said: “I think we’ve got to ask ourselves why is it that we’ve seen medical interventions that have been given on the basis of very weak evidence?
“How is it that clinicians have been silenced or afraid to come forward?

Zero self awareness.

I think the members who are leaving are mainly Muslims and pro-Palestinian voters who don't like Starmers reluctance to call for an unequivocal ceasefire. I see it as aconsequence of Starmers strong and consistent position on anti semitism to be honest.

Some of them may be.

Some, possibly many, will be the likes of Little Owen Jones

What?
I think the members who are leaving are mainly Muslims and pro-Palestinian voters who don't like Starmers reluctance to call for an unequivocal ceasefire. I see it as aconsequence of Starmers strong and consistent position on anti semitism to be honest.
Sunak has a similar issue around losing members to reform for not being hard enough on immigration. But he's responding differently.

What I meant is, he changed his mind ages ago so it's a bit off to act like he's "u turned" because of the Cass review.

Yes, that's true re Gaza / Israel.

It just seems very contradictory to be flying high in the polls, but also consistently losing your members.

I am looking forward to the manifestos, it has to be said, as Labour will have to pin their flag to the mast and we should get a clear idea about what they're actually thinking.

Labour has been losing women for ages. I think the 23000 lost recently will be mostly about Israel/Gaza. Since they are overwhelmingly the same people as the trans women are women brigade labour has decided to ditch them as a lost cause. Hence their new stance.

Does this take the prize for the most ironic post on the thread?

This Guardian article is interesting on Starmer's direction. Labour has lost 23,000 members in two months, I note.

I wonder what's currently going on at Labour HQ in relation to the party's direction for the GE? I bet it'd be fascinating to be a fly on the wall.

Reading that article, rather than Rayner refusing to apologise, it says her spokesman refused to apologise on her behalf, which sounds like a total non story to me. I wouldn’t expect a statement on this to be made second hand. I don’t expect her to actually apologise, but I’d expect some weaselly hedging when she actually does speak on the topic.

I agree, @Floisme. I'm still not voting for them as it stands.

Well the pushback didn't take long did it: Pipe down ladies, don't be toxic. Tough.

Gender critical Labour. voters have been treated like pariahs for questioning the use of experimental medical practices on children. We have every right to be angry and speaking for me, now that I'm out of the fold, I have no intention of trooping dutifully back.

Why? Because the people who helped embed gender ideology within the party are still there. I'm not talking either about nutty activists on Reddit. I'm thinking of Shadow Cabinet, select committee andI National Executive Committee members, in other words, people who have been shaping Labour policies (a conversion therapy ban still one of them). And at constituency level, I'm thinking of people who have been instrumental in selecting what looks likely to be a huge influx of new MPs. How many gender critical candidates made it through do we think?

It is not toxic to want those responsible held to account. It's supposed to be how democracy works.

Is it me, or has LRM been very quiet since Cass? Just checked his TwiX and it's surprisingly devoid of the topic.

Anyone who can read the Cass report and continue in the vein which Rayner does has to be spectacularly dim, surely?

My question is that given Streeting's response (which was really the only response he could give, given his Shadow position), why isn't there more coherence from Labour? Why aren't their MPs being briefed on a new, more sensible, party line?

Anyone with half a brain cell can see the way the wind is blowing for the public. They may not have grasped the women's rights aspect of the 'trans rights' arguments, but they sure do understand that damaging kids is bad. And Streeting's very public u turn re TWAW is really helpful in bringing the '#bekind'-ers along with him.

It is a shame that ‘full accountability for the abuses perpetrated on us in the name of healthcare’ is in such precise conflict with everything else in that statement.

it is entirely possible to hold the belief that Starmer is a massive misogynist while at the same time acknowledging that there are more "massiver misogynists" out there too

Anyone who thinks that "some women have a penis" and/or use the phrase "her penis" (when not being compelled to, say in court) are misogynists.

Labour picked the wrong side.
It's disappointing that so few of them have the integrity or emotional intelligence to acknowledge this. Starmer has beclowned himself with his ramblings about which women have a penis or cervix and that's not good. Will he be as delusional in the face of Putin and other major challenges?

I'm pleased that Wes Streeting is conducting his u turn. He's a gay man who had to make a choice between the rabid transactivists versus the harm happening to children, a majority of them gay and lesbian children. He's made the right choice. I believe it when he says that he regrets the bullying of women. He may not mean it but I hope he does. The fact he regrets stating that TWAW is also significant for a Labour MP.

Perhaps he's been sent out to "soften up" the electorate in the hope they'll forgive Starmer's capture and weakness? Who knows. But it's getting busy on that golden bridge and if this means Labour will respect the integrity of Cass then that's a small step to restoring some of the damage this ideology has inflicted on society.

It's the Telegraph and a spokee but even taking that into account Rayner still calling WPUK, LGBAlliance, etc as transexclusionary hate groups

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/11/angela-rayner-trans-charter-attacked-feminist-group-apology/

https://archive.ph/olU7G instead of banging you head on a brickwall smash the paywall-triarchy!

Labour really, really don't want my vote, do they?