Labour infighting over trans issues reignited by Cass Review

Ultimately he shot himself in the foot because although some people don't think it was a problem, a lot of people were offended and Sunak went down in their estimation as a result

Don't be ridiculous! Sunak's reputation has been in the sewers for months.

I was offended he made that quip in front of Esther Ghey

She wasn't there and you know she wasn't there. Even the Grauniad acknowledged that fact.

I was offended he made that quip in front of Esther Ghey.

Except he didn't. She wasn't in there.

I never said it was transphobic. Personally I don't think it was transphobic. I was offended he made that quip in front of Esther Ghey. It seemed callous and unnecessary to me. Sometimes choosing #bekind is the right response, and that quip added nothing to his point.

Ultimately he shot himself in the foot because although some people don't think it was a problem, a lot of people were offended and Sunak went down in their estimation as a result

🙄i know we aren't going to agree it's distasteful. You don't have to share my opinion.
I'm sure the poster can read old threads and look at the news and make their own mind up.

She doesn't care though does she? That's very clear.

Agree. Even if she's using Muslim purely as an expression of cultural identity and has no religious belief whatsoever, it's hard to believe she doesn't know any woman for whom this would be an issue.

She was not in the chamber at the time.

I still would have thought she'd know women for whom this is important.

I found it extremely distasteful and tone deaf of Sunak to make that comment. No "second hand offence" about it. Sunak should be clever enough to moderate his comments depending on the circumstances. It was very poorly judged I thought

I am sorry that you find it 'distasteful' that Sunak takes the piss out of the fact that Starmer thinks that 1% of women have a penis. Never mind. Anyone who spouts ludicrous and offensive bullshit like that deserves nothing but derision.

And as to you point that Sunak should moderate his comments - why? If you are suggesting it's because Brianna's mother was in the chamber (she wasn't btw) then where does that end? Politicians' speech should never be swayed by who is sitting in there watching them for obvious reasons.

Finally I did not see this as a 'transphobic' comment - the issue is about women. Starmer is a fool who has backed himself in to a corner over the definition of what a woman is - that did not need to happen.

I know a lot of people who would describe themselves as Christian, despite never going to church, not praying regularly, not followingthe bible to the letter etc.

It conveniently missed the intro where Starmer welcomes Esther Ghey to the house, before they start the debate. That is relevant context because it shows that Sunak knew she was there, knew why she was there and still chose to make a cheap jab at starmer about trans issues.

As I say. Distasteful. Of course, you may disagree.

As the MP's shameful twitter post plus the odd comment on here demonstrates, trans activists are out in force seeking to swerve the discussion away from the need to safeguard children. Cass is a landmark investigation into the shameful behaviour of the medical profession who have inflicted brutal unevidenced treatment on children.
The Zarah Sultana's of the world and other transactivists don't want this discussed. Hence swerving discussions to transphobia and related issues.
Talking about safeguarding children is uncomfortable and difficult. Politicians who are unable to acknowledge the dreadful reality of child abuse shouldn't be in power.

I do not understand how you cannot see that it is absolutely misogyny to suggest that men with penises are women as Starmer has done. How about when he said that it is 'wrong and shouldn't be said' that only women have a cervix? Is that not misogyny either? 🙄

Yes I agree with that. I wish we had a society where someone like Brianna could just present however they liked without hostility and without having to be anxious.

I think the only way that happens is by allowing children to express themselves very early and making no assumptions about the boy in the Princess dress or the girl dressed as superman (totally cartooning).

The debate is now so toxified that I can see it would be easy for a parent with a boy in a princess dress to get a mouthful from someone making the wrong assumptions, about "safeguarding" and "child mutilation" when they've done nothing wrong.

Don't know what the answer is but I do agree with Cass that the polarisation is not helping at all.

So you clearly did not watch the clip that I posted or you would have seen that it shows much more of the exchange than the clip you posted. Ridiculous!

But UK residents don’t describe themselves as Christian unless they are, whatever variety.

Muslims presumably are religious, though sects differ in practices.

the definition of transphobia is surely that anything, at all, other than hosannas to "TWAW" is transphobic. The increase in "hate crime" is most likely an out break of looking funny at people.

Holy shit, that’s a wafer thin majority’

Agree with @MissScarletInTheBallroom

But also, @AdamRyan, it sounds as if you agree that Brianna Ghey would have been better placed if it was more acknowledged that her gender dysphoria was something that should mean that she was expected to be treated with sympathy as a symptom of fragility and confusion whilst still working things out.

Unfortunately, instead, Brianna was surrounded by a culture obsessed with adultifying these kids - what a pressure to have to label yourself, to be decided on this stuff, to feel the need to badge yourself as a representive (as she did online). Those of us who have been concerned about this are still likely to be badged transphobic - there is a lot of resistance to the idea that trans may signify distress from the adult community, who want it to be seen as a strong empowered decision at all times.

That's the contradiction so far - everyone on the TRA side seems to be telling young people that they are part of a super oppressed class of people who are continually victimised but that they should feel empowered and in control of their decision to join this community at all times. Wouldn't anyone feel quite anxious about this messaging too?

Even aside from any transphobia Brianna actually encountered in her life, it's a tough place to be in. Particularly also someone who spent many hours marketing herself online in make up tutorials to pass as female.

It's a totally impossible dream to sell to a young teenager. Pointing this out is not transphobic, it is compassionate.

Yes, even if she isn’t bothered herself she must surely see how limiting a lack of single sex spaces and services are for other people’s Muslim women and girls?

Maybe she's not religious? Muslims are about as much of a hive mind as Christians and the UK is fairly secular.

One thing I find surprising about people like Zarah Sultana is that a woman from a Muslim background doesn't care more about single sex spaces.

Also, is anyone else frequently shocked by how young some MPs are these days?

The post is controversial because Zarah Sultana demonstrably can't be trusted to define transphobia. The comment about tackling transphobia could potentially be a valid point if made by someone who isn't trotting out that UN bollocks in the same post, sure.

100% agree. It is awful for everyone.