Page 2 | Interview with Dr Hilary Cass 7:30 am bbc r4 Today programme

WarriorN · 2024-04-10T05:20:42+00:00

Just flagging this up. Cass review has been the headline news on today

NeedToKnow101 · 10/04/2024 08:42

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 07:45

Has this been a medical scandal?

"That's for someone else to make a decision about."

'My concern is to get the right level of care and the evidence base.'

Of course she should have an opinion on whether it's a medical scandal or not! She has just spent two years investigating it! Why so much pussy-footing around still?!

NameChangeAgainAdvicePlease · 10/04/2024 08:38

I'm so far peaked that I listened to the transwoman speaking about how they had had to wait for 'care' and therefore been through male puberty and I felt so sorry for them that they had been convinced it wasn't a natural process that really no one could stop anyway.

I felt like they were so completely wrong about the care they thought they needed and had a right to, that they were seeking physical intervention when it should have been psychological care to deal with the dysphoria. It was a tragic story but not for the reasons they stated. Tragic that they had to wait for psychological care, but was that even on offer I wonder?

What a total mess

Misthios · 10/04/2024 08:33

It's the top story on BBC Scotland news this morning, partly because the Sandyford in Glasgow is still dishing out puberty blockers.

greyonwhitesky · 10/04/2024 08:29

Time after time, those of us arguing from an approach critical of gender ideology have been proved right. Why? Because we based our analysis and conclusions on sound data, evidence and analysis. You know, putting in all the slow hard work of gathering data, sound analysis, presenting our case publicly and being able to defend it. All the things that used to be normal when forming policy and legislation.

I hope gender ideology goes down in political and public sector and social history as a classic example of how things go wrong when you base your decisions on ideology and good intentions without having a solid evidence base, and allowing free speech to debate and critique positions before making your decisions.

Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:27

greyonwhitesky · 10/04/2024 08:23

I'm listening again, she describes from surveys of clinicians that it was lack of guidance plus a concern that they'd be criticised for not immediately affirming that mean that normal assessments were not undertaken and children were passed to GIDs

Which again is a devastating indictment of the affirmation approach.

Why were they concerned about not immediately affirming?

What information were they relying on that says you must affirm?

So many more questions.

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WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:26

greyonwhitesky · 10/04/2024 08:20

It's very unusual to prescribe life changing drugs without evidence base

This was my favorite comment. It’s an absolutely devastating indictment of how the NHS has been handling children presenting with gender incongruence, calmly delivered with extremely British understatement.

Exactly.

A transcript would be good as I get the impression that she's saying that nhs staff made unusual decisions due to "outside pressures" (which we know has been intense) due to lack of guidance and evidence.

She also describes the Tavi starting research but deviating from normal procedures.

The parts not being said by Cass is that we know why they deviated.

Outside pressures and lack of evidence....

This is screaming out for a public inquiry

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greyonwhitesky · 10/04/2024 08:23

I'm listening again, she describes from surveys of clinicians that it was lack of guidance plus a concern that they'd be criticised for not immediately affirming that mean that normal assessments were not undertaken and children were passed to GIDs

Which again is a devastating indictment of the affirmation approach.

Emmaheather · 10/04/2024 08:22

Woman2023 · 10/04/2024 07:51

Shame that she thinks some children should be put on a medical pathway sooner rather than later. What gave her that idea? What evidence?

My understanding is that this was to acknowledging some gender dysphoric children may go on to a medical pathway (hormones/surgery) in adulthood and that person might feel that's the right decision for them.

greyonwhitesky · 10/04/2024 08:20

It's very unusual to prescribe life changing drugs without evidence base

This was my favorite comment. It’s an absolutely devastating indictment of how the NHS has been handling children presenting with gender incongruence, calmly delivered with extremely British understatement.

Arcadia · 10/04/2024 08:15

FannyCann · 10/04/2024 07:57

We heard a clip from a trans woman (registered male at birth) who talked about the horrors of going through puberty and the delays to treatment. What he needed was psychological therapy and lots of it.

Shame they feel that they have to provide 'balance' when we've heard far too much of that type of story already and it's purely anecdotal and no analysis

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WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:14

Justin asks a very important question about if GIDs Tavistock clinicians felt the "pressure from outside" - ie lobbying groups

Cass responds that she feels everyone was doing what they felt was best, which sounds like they could only refer to WPATH and those outside pressures.

I think she's been disparaging of WPATH elsewhere?

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WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:12

Which puts the lid on that being conversion therapy.

She's calling for better long term evidence for non medicalisation and psych treatments

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WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:10

Woman2023 · 10/04/2024 07:51

Shame that she thinks some children should be put on a medical pathway sooner rather than later. What gave her that idea? What evidence?

As I listen again, she's working around pushing the evidence base as mush as possible. Which unfortunately means some people will be medicalised. She immediately balances with

"Impact of Long term psychological therapies."

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:05

Normal assessments and referrals being around trauma, autism, depression, abuse etc.

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:04

*meant.

I can't edit 😭

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:03

I'm listening again, she describes from surveys of clinicians that it was lack of guidance plus a concern that they'd be criticised for not immediately affirming that mean that normal assessments were not undertaken and children were passed to GIDs.

That says to me that the NHS's edi trans focussed training was influencing them. Hugely.

Public inquiry now

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FannyCann · 10/04/2024 08:02

The Star is covering a mini heatwave,

So mini I missed it! Must have been while I was digging out another thick sweater and turning up the heating.

Sorry to derail from important issues but that made me smile.

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WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:01

That's a "yes but the politicians need to name it that, not me"

Public inquiry now.

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Ramblingnamechanger · 10/04/2024 08:00

of course the the BBC managed to find a man who said he had to wait too long and a mother who approved of how hormones had helped her daughter (how could she not?) Hilary Cass came across as sensible and concerned but the report pulls no punches.

FannyCann · 10/04/2024 07:59

As an aside I like her use of "Birth registered" male/female.

Goodbye to "assigned" male/female.
And avoids arguments about use of language such as "biological" female/male etc.

Madcats · 10/04/2024 07:58

Chickenrunning · 10/04/2024 07:43

I can’t find the newspaper headlines round up on BBC online (not the Today problem, the one where they take pictures of the front pages). I can only find yesterday’s. Is todays up yet?

The "front pages" are on my BBC News app on my Kindle, with Cass review being the first news item.

It was updated at about 6am.

Front page news for:
Telegraph
Guardian
Daily Mail
Yellow box on front page for the "i"
Times

The Star is covering a mini heatwave, Metro reporting about rata in hospitals, Express leaving the EHCR, Sun Peter Philips splittling up with his girlfriend, FT not a mention on the front page.

FannyCann · 10/04/2024 07:57

Woman2023 · 10/04/2024 07:51

Shame that she thinks some children should be put on a medical pathway sooner rather than later. What gave her that idea? What evidence?

Exactly. I was very sorry to hear that.
For some people that will mean business as usual.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 07:57

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 07:47

They've read out Javid's comment in the times that the lobby groups need to be kept at bay.

Waves to Stonewall and The MN Monitors.

FannyCann · 10/04/2024 07:57

We heard a clip from a trans woman (registered male at birth) who talked about the horrors of going through puberty and the delays to treatment. What he needed was psychological therapy and lots of it.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 07:56

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 07:45

Has this been a medical scandal?

"That's for someone else to make a decision about."

'My concern is to get the right level of care and the evidence base.'

That's a "yes but the politicians need to name it that, not me"