Interview with Dr Hilary Cass 7:30 am bbc r4 Today programme

WarriorN · 2024-04-10T05:20:42+00:00

Just flagging this up. Cass review has been the headline news on today

maltravers · 11/04/2024 11:50

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 08:03

I'm listening again, she describes from surveys of clinicians that it was lack of guidance plus a concern that they'd be criticised for not immediately affirming that mean that normal assessments were not undertaken and children were passed to GIDs.

That says to me that the NHS's edi trans focussed training was influencing them. Hugely.

Public inquiry now

This jumped out at me too. Cass’s position seemed to be that doctors should use their usual skill set and assume they can treat. But given the new conversion legislation Labour says it’s bringing in, who would take a risk and not affirm? It’s will get passed to GIDS mark 2 instead.

Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 10:37

There's the wheat and the chaff too.

It's now trendy to be trans. It's a style.

Then there's the children who are severely distressed by their bodies.

Unfortunately due to peer and online pressure the first can actively lead to the second.

That's what needs to be understood and separated from being gender non conforming

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 10:31

Exactly.

Any child experiencing deep distress about their body in anyway should be treated with care which includes looking for the reasons behind it.

This is self harm, anorexia and other eating disorders and also wanting to be the opposite sex.

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BiologicalKitty · 10/04/2024 10:11

Any child expressing disgust at their sexed body should be flagged as a potential safeguarding risk - at one time this was recognised as possible signs of CSA, now it's "evidence" of "trans." That has to stop immediately.

FannyCann · 10/04/2024 10:04

It's the top story on BBC Scotland news this morning, partly because the Sandyford in Glasgow is still dishing out puberty blockers.

It's all very well Scotland have separate healthcare system / policies but I don't see how the Sandyford can continue to prescribe PBs after this. Surely laying themselves open to future legal action when young people grow up and realise they have been harmed which wouldn't have happened if they had been south of the border?

Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 10:03

Focussing on girls

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 10:03

Yes! On woman's hour now

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 10:03

It's a good point as I know of a terrible school in Scotland where the staff are so confused that they had been treating a GNC girl (daughter of a friend) badly, mis gendering etc

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MidsomerMurmurs · 10/04/2024 10:00

@AmaryllisNightAndDay In that case schools would need to be very careful about (not) interpreting gender nonconforming behaviour as indicating a trans identity

How difficult is it to accept that girls can like football and boys can like ballet but it has nothing to do with “trans”? Surely all it requires is for gender ideologues who work in education to leave their ideology at home and not bring it into the classroom.

Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 09:57

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 10/04/2024 09:53

It means that indications by children of trans identity is flagged as a safeguarding issue

Hm. In that case schools would need to be very careful about (not) interpreting gender nonconforming behaviour as indicating a trans identity. Which "indications" would be a safeguarding issue?

Yes that needs to be careful outlined.

Asking to socially transition.

Changing pronouns

Gender non conformity is not the issue, it's being asked to be seen and "treated as" the opposite sex.

Expressing that they are not their sex.

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 09:55

I actually have some concerns about this interview.

She is outright asked about the "external pressures" that the Tavistock bowed to.

She dismisses it with "everyone trying their best." And lack of evidence and lack of guidance, they were the forefront and on their own.

Sue Evans was raising safeguarding concerns from 2004 onwards.

These people were bullied for raising safety concerns.

The service and the leaders of the service was completely captured to external pressures that were not evidenced based or were WPATH, generating biased evidence.

Charities, lobby groups, militant parents.

How is any of that possible if proper child and nhs medical safeguarding was being followed?

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 10/04/2024 09:53

It means that indications by children of trans identity is flagged as a safeguarding issue

Hm. In that case schools would need to be very careful about (not) interpreting gender nonconforming behaviour as indicating a trans identity. Which "indications" would be a safeguarding issue?

Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 09:45

I Posted on another thread:

Next step:

The school's guidance needs completely updating to reflect observations.

It needs to be statutory

It needs to be embedded in "keeping children safe in education," the statutory framework for safeguarding children in education, citing online influences, porn, sexual abuse etc

Currently there's a whimsical phrase that says being lgbtq isn't a safeguarding issue in itself. This was used by TRAs at the neu to pass those ridiculous motions.

Cass means a divorce of the T from LGB in kcsie.

It means no more concept of a "trans child."

It means that indications by children of trans identity is flagged as a safeguarding issue

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NameChangeAgainAdvicePlease · 10/04/2024 09:41

Twitter is full of people like Katy Mongomerie shrieking about evidence bases and death sentences

Christ

Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 09:23

Though I have seen it elsewhere that the report says there should be detransition provisions on the nhs.

Whether these should be separate provisions or part of the same service is to be decided after consultation with those who need to access them

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 09:22

Yes. I noted that Cass talked a lot about girls then they rolled out a male and a parent of a male (if talking about a daughter the child was likely to be male)

Quite.

Where are the detrans voices?

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Original poster

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 09:21

Aw, Children by EMF playing on 6 music .

" Children, I know
You deserve, more than this world could ever give"

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borntobequiet · 10/04/2024 09:17

NameChangeAgainAdvicePlease · 10/04/2024 08:38

I'm so far peaked that I listened to the transwoman speaking about how they had had to wait for 'care' and therefore been through male puberty and I felt so sorry for them that they had been convinced it wasn't a natural process that really no one could stop anyway.

I felt like they were so completely wrong about the care they thought they needed and had a right to, that they were seeking physical intervention when it should have been psychological care to deal with the dysphoria. It was a tragic story but not for the reasons they stated. Tragic that they had to wait for psychological care, but was that even on offer I wonder?

What a total mess

I think many people listening would have felt the same way - which was why it was a clever choice.

KittyEars · 10/04/2024 09:12

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

JennyForeigner · 10/04/2024 09:09

Ramblingnamechanger · 10/04/2024 09:01

BlackeyedSusan yes of course you are right about it being another male…there is another interview with the same mother in the Guardian I think.

That piece in the Guardian is offensively disingenuous. The focus is on evidence-based care and they just run a side piece of people complaining that they will struggle to access services that have been found to be dangerous and untested.

Ramblingnamechanger · 10/04/2024 09:01

BlackeyedSusan yes of course you are right about it being another male…there is another interview with the same mother in the Guardian I think.

nettie434 · 10/04/2024 08:57

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 07:45

Has this been a medical scandal?

"That's for someone else to make a decision about."

'My concern is to get the right level of care and the evidence base.'

I heard that as Dr Cass recognising that there could be a future inquiry. Maybe I am being too naive but there were some devastating comments in the interview - especially the one about evidence.

I felt the Today programme covered the review well and it clearly helped having Justin Webb as one of the presenters. Having Hugh Pym reporting is also a sign that the review is being treated as a top news story.

greyonwhitesky · 10/04/2024 08:49

NeedToKnow101 · 10/04/2024 08:42

Of course she should have an opinion on whether it's a medical scandal or not! She has just spent two years investigating it! Why so much pussy-footing around still?!

Show quote history

I think she was right to focus on her remit and not step outside it there. She still needs people to listen to her report and enact it fully. And they are most likely to do that if they don’t feel attacked by her but instead are convinced she is drawing evidence based and objective conclusions, rather than judgements. That was her role, she’s fulfilled it and needs to be seen as fulfilling it.

Shes had a hard task to look like she is not taking sides and it’s been clear to see her working hard to achieve that throughout. Any sign of bias will immediately be jumped on to undermine her and her report.

Her words, though calmly delivered, and as I said before, delivered with British understatement, are devastating enough for everyone in the NHS to understand the weight of them.

BlackeyedSusan · 10/04/2024 08:49

Ramblingnamechanger · 10/04/2024 08:00

of course the the BBC managed to find a man who said he had to wait too long and a mother who approved of how hormones had helped her daughter (how could she not?) Hilary Cass came across as sensible and concerned but the report pulls no punches.

Yes. I noted that Cass talked a lot about girls then they rolled out a male and a parent of a male (if talking about a daughter the child was likely to be male)

NImumconfused · 10/04/2024 08:46

NameChangeAgainAdvicePlease · 10/04/2024 08:38

I'm so far peaked that I listened to the transwoman speaking about how they had had to wait for 'care' and therefore been through male puberty and I felt so sorry for them that they had been convinced it wasn't a natural process that really no one could stop anyway.

I felt like they were so completely wrong about the care they thought they needed and had a right to, that they were seeking physical intervention when it should have been psychological care to deal with the dysphoria. It was a tragic story but not for the reasons they stated. Tragic that they had to wait for psychological care, but was that even on offer I wonder?

What a total mess

Yes, the Guardian had an article talking briefly about the impact of this on mental health services, given that they are already overwhelmed. My DD15 has several of the conditions which are often comorbid with gender dysphoria - autism, OCD, body dysphoria, cPTSD - and it's been next to impossible to get any useful support for her from CAMHS, even when she's suicidal, so it seems unlikely they can suddenly come up with enough clinicians and therapists to properly support all those children on the GIDS waiting list unfortunately.