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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Final Report Cass Review now published

308 replies

IwantToRetire · 10/04/2024 02:10

Dr Hilary Cass has submitted her final report and recommendations to NHS England in her role as Chair of the Independent Review of gender identity services for children and young people.

Download from https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

Final Report – Cass Review

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report

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26
RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 13:33

That moment in films when music plays and goes Huuuulllajjjah, Huuuulllajjjah, Huuuulllajjjah.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 13:31

40. This is a heterogenous group, with broad

ranging presentations often including complex

needs that extend beyond gender-related

distress and this needs to be reflected in the

services offered to them by the NHS.

41. Too often this cohort are considered a

homogenous group for whom there is a single

driving cause and an optimum treatment

approach, but this is an over-simplification of the

situation. Being gender-questioning or having a

trans identity means different things to different

people. Among those being referred to children

and young people’s gender services, some may

benefit from medical intervention and some may

not. The clinical approach must reflect this.

If this applies to children the same applies to adults. With all the implications for law making and safeguarding that accompany this.

Recommendation 8:

NHS England should review the
policy on masculinising/feminising hormones. The option to provide masculinising/feminising hormones from age 16 is available, but the Review would recommend extreme caution. There should be a clear clinical rationale for providing hormones at this stage rather than waiting until an individual reaches 18.

Question: Why on earth did the NHS update the guidelines on hormones to adolescents just weeks before the Cass Review was due?

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever not to wait - unless someone was DELIBERATELY politicking even at that point.

Recommendation 10:
All children should be offered fertility
counselling and preservation prior to going onto a medical pathway.

Your regular reminder of how women with physical medical conditions are regularly refused surgery related to reproductive organs on the basis that they might change their minds later. Not women who are very young but women approaching their thirties and beyond.

108. Establishment of a National Provider

Collaborative should ensure the regional

centres operate to shared standards and

operating procedures, developing protocols for

assessment and treatment. The Collaborative

should have a role in overseeing ethics, training

and professional development, data and audit,

quality improvement and research requirements,

as well as providing a forum for the discussion

of complex cases. The aim is that no matter

where in the country the child/young person

is seen, they will receive the same high

standards of evidence-based care.

No rogue clinics which you can select on the basis of their over arching ideology which was the fear of many here. Establishment of professional standards that are universal across the country with service providers held to account by a central body. This is good.

120. There is a lack of confidence among

the wider workforce to engage with gender-

questioning children and adolescents. Many

clinicians working with children and young

people have transferable skills and expertise,

but there is a need for all clinicians across the

NHS to receive better training on how to work

sensitively and effectively with trans, non-binary

and gender-questioning young people.

You mean all that training outsourced to Stonewall and Mermaids isn't good enough?! What was wrong with it? (Innocent face).

Recommendation 15:
NHS England should commission
^a lead organisation to establish a consortium of relevant professional bodies to:
^
• develop a competency framework

• identify gaps in professional
^training programmes
^
• develop a suite of training
materials to supplement professional competencies, appropriate to their clinical field and level. This should include a module on the holistic assessment framework and approach to formulation and care planning.

Removal of power from Trusts on this by the looks of it and a centralised quality controlled internal training framework. Stonewall are not compatible with these criteria.

142. Discussions with clinicians highlighted the

importance of differentiating the subgroups

within the referred population who may be at risk

and/or need more urgent support, assessment

or intervention; there may also be subgroups

for whom early advice to parents or school staff

may be a more appropriate first step.

Teaching unions have an issue with regards to their current political position and their legal duty of care responsibilities... Massive conflict of interest here.

156. GPs have expressed concern about
being pressurised to prescribe hormones after
these have been initiated by private providers
and that there is a lack of clarity around their
responsibilities in relation to monitoring.
157. The Review understands and shares
the concerns about the use of unregulated
medications and of providers that are not
regulated within the UK. Any clinician who
ascertains that a young person is being given
drugs from an unregulated source should make
the young person and their family aware of the
risks of such treatment

Well that's not difficult to work out who that's being aimed squarely at.

NHS number

161. Currently, when a person requests to

change their gender on their NHS record,

NHS guidance requires that they are issued

with a new NHS number. This has implications

for safeguarding and clinical management of

these children and young people and could

affect longer-term health management

(for example, the screening they are offered).

162. From a research perspective, the issuing

of new NHS numbers makes it more difficult to

identify the long-term outcomes for a patient

population for whom the evidence base is

currently weak.

Question: Should DBS forms be tied to NHS numbers to prevent issues arising from Name Changes? This would work if you can't change NHS numbers.

• A major problem in making sense of trial findings is bias. There are many ways in which
^results can be biased. For example, if 50% of the sample drops out, this would be referred to as a high attrition rate. It’s possible that the people who remained in the study are those who responded well to the treatment, whereas those who dropped out did so because the treatment wasn’t working for them or they had bad side effects. This could result in a positive bias in the study outcomes; in other words showing an effect when there isn’t one.
It could also fail to show the side effects that caused people to drop out.
^
• Another way of biasing results is if the patients in the treatment and control groups
^differ in some way; for example, one group has more people who are younger, or sicker.
^Researchers will assess the groups on several measures and compare them to see if they are similar at the start of the study (baseline assessment). Random allocation of people to the study groups and large numbers of participants help reduce the risk of differences between study groups.
• It is very important to get the inclusion and exclusion criteria of a study right (that is,

which patients can and cannot be included). For example, a trial might report that a
painkiller is highly effective, but if it turns out that only people with osteoarthritis in the knee were included it would mean that the results cannot be generalised to patients with headache. Although the drug may work very well for headache, it is not possible to be sure about this on the basis of findings of this particular study.
• In any design where patients are not blinded and know they are getting a particular
^drug, or where they have chosen a specific treatment rather than being randomised to one, they may show improvement because of a placebo effect (that is, they believe that the treatment will produce a beneficial outcome).
^
• Sometimes there are confounding factors in a study, such as the patient getting another

treatment at the same time as the trial treatment. Though randomisation and blinding
^minimise the risk of bias and confounding, this is notcompletely watertight.
^
• There must also be enough patients in a trial (the term ‘sufficiently powered’ is often
^used where there are) to be sure the results reflect the range of possible outcomes and do not give a ‘positive´ result by chance, a so-called Type 1 (or alpha) error. Study outcome measures are generally reported as the average for a group, but the range is usually also given and can be very wide. For example, if the average outcome for a group is 5 points out of a possible 10, a range of 2-9 would indicate much more varied outcomes across the group than a range of 4-6. Size influences whether the reported outcomes are statistically significant. In very small studies, for example one with only
four patients put on a treatment and in which three got better and one got worse, it would not be possible to understand the full range of possible outcomes. Furthermore, the benefits for three individuals could have happened by chance. For a result to be statistically significant, it must be unlikely that the result could have happened by chance. This is why substantial numbers of participants are required and a key requirement of any trial is a pre-recruitment estimate of how many will be needed for the study to produce meaningful results.
• There are many other potential problems, some of which include:
^
- unconscious bias in questionnaire design where the questions are written
^in a way that prompts a more favourable response;
^
- using the wrong kind of analysis for the available data;

- not following up for long enough to see the full benefits or harms of a treatment;

- seeing an improvement because patients were improving spontaneously over time;

- publication bias where, for example, only positive results are published.

peanutbuttertoasty · 10/04/2024 13:16

I was surprised to hear on the radio this morning that whilst kids won’t be given puberty blockers on NHS they will still be given other hormones, eg testosterone. I hadn’t heard that before but doesn’t sound great. Does Cass talk about that?

Hippymum33 · 10/04/2024 13:12

I'm confused, surely this legislation is designed to actively help children not cause them further harm?

MalagaNights · 10/04/2024 13:12

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 13:00

It was still indicating that there might be some children transitioning.

I'm trying to work out if that's the case in Cass, though no more nhs pbs certainly would add to that.

I think Cass still doesn't rule out any social transition. It just imlies caution and it could lead to medical pathways and recommends clinical support for advice.

So I think schools position should be no supporting social transition unless with clinical advice. Which was broadly the school guidance position?

But I need to read it more closely.

Yes to KCSIE amendment!

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 13:00

It was still indicating that there might be some children transitioning.

I'm trying to work out if that's the case in Cass, though no more nhs pbs certainly would add to that.

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 12:59

@MalagaNights yes and no.

The proposed guidance didn't quite go far enough to fully safeguard the child.

But I'm hoping that this is spelt out more clearly in kcsie.

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 12:58

@RedToothBrush will there be one though?

MalagaNights · 10/04/2024 12:56

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 09:35

Next step:

The school's guidance needs completely updating to reflect observations.

It needs to be statutory

It needs to be embedded in "keeping children safe in education," the statutory framework for safeguarding children in education, citing online influences, porn, sexual abuse etc

Currently there's a whimsical phrase that says being lgbtq isn't a safeguarding issue in itself. This was used by TRAs at the neu to pass those ridiculous motions.

Cass means a divorce of the T from LGB in kcsie.

It means no more concept of a "trans child."

It means that indications by children of trans identity is flagged as a safeguarding issue

Yes to all this now ^

I think the draft school guidance was written knowing the content of Cass.
The referenec to no social tranistion at primary etc.

It now needs to be finalised and made statutory. Schools and unions need to be forced into line.

If Labour are supportting Cass are they going to support tthe school guidance?

Abeona · 10/04/2024 12:53

EsmaCannonball · 10/04/2024 11:18

We're encouraged to think of the medical profession as dispassionate, or even heroic, but history is littered with examples of doctors doing terrible things for ideological reasons. Think of the family doctors and hospital staff all over the Third Reich who happily filled in the paperwork that would send their patients, mostly children, to the gas chamber. They believed they were doing a societal good. The medical profession can attract people who believe they are saving the world but exactly what they think that entails can be very scary.

Today I have an awful itch to contact a former friend (a doctor and a lesbian) who discovered in GI the perfect combination of SJW virtue-signalling possibilities, career advancement and the public attention that she craved. She went from being a bored GP who resented dealing with older people and their creaky and unsightly bodies to a TQ+ heroine, surrounded by TWs gazing adoringly at her. I'm tempted to send her a copy of the Cass report and ask her if she still thinks I'm a hateful bigot.

She isn't the only one. I hope the Cass review will have given pause for thought to the head of my local paediatric service. She's a lesbian in thrall to GI who has argued with me over the years that sex is a spectrum. As one of the most gender-non-conforming women I know, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she has her own struggles on this issue.

I also knew two lesbian GPs who embraced GI very early on and have behaved maliciously towards colleagues and friends who are gender realists. Three of these four refer to themselves as being ND. One talks about her autism.

These days I'm very careful around medics.

TroutRunner · 10/04/2024 12:52

EsmaCannonball · 10/04/2024 11:18

We're encouraged to think of the medical profession as dispassionate, or even heroic, but history is littered with examples of doctors doing terrible things for ideological reasons. Think of the family doctors and hospital staff all over the Third Reich who happily filled in the paperwork that would send their patients, mostly children, to the gas chamber. They believed they were doing a societal good. The medical profession can attract people who believe they are saving the world but exactly what they think that entails can be very scary.

The medical profession (and other public services - policing, teaching, social care etc) seem to be full of people who don’t question guidelines and are therefore very susceptible to ideology.
I don’t mean this as a criticism - if public services were full of individual thinkers the whole thing would be anarchy. On the flip side though we’ve had a decade or so of gender ideology taking a real hold because many of those in positions of authority cannot see beyond what they’re told.

OK2023 · 10/04/2024 12:29

CaptainWarbeck · 10/04/2024 08:32

In addition, finding out that the NHS records gender over sex is absolute madness. How on earth do cervical/breast cancer screening letters get sent out correctly?

Can anyone expand on this? Anyone in medical profession perhaps? It’s a very good question and I really want to know the answer

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 12:29

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 12:13

Point 73

"rigid binary stereotypes are unhelpful"

In relation to parental attitudes

Is this a dig as Susie Green?

Tbh I have thought there have been a few criticisms of Mermaids roll in the report ithout singling Mermaids out. Mermaids as it was, WAS Susie Green.

It's avoiding placing blame. That's for the Public Enquiry

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 12:13

Point 73

"rigid binary stereotypes are unhelpful"

In relation to parental attitudes

Is this a dig as Susie Green?

Final Report Cass Review now published
FinallyASunnyDay · 10/04/2024 11:58

I am ploughing through the report.

It is actually fascinating, even if, like me, you have been reading voraciously on the issue since being peaked. The breadth of evidence considered is astonishing and it is summarised in extremely accessible language. Recommend !!

BusyMummy001 · 10/04/2024 11:58

Have had a word vomit on another thread, so won’t repeat here - but am feeling quite emotional today now that the report is finally here. It’s a bit bloody late for my teen and peers, but hopefully will contribute to a sea change in the approach to supporting children and young people with (RO)GD, a sea change that I hope will have global as well as national implications.

Hope the judge in Tickle v Giggle takes time out of their day to read this and give his head a little wobble too.

Datun · 10/04/2024 11:50

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/04/2024 11:32

Just wanted to put Transgender Trend's detailed and informed response on here. Stephanie Davies-Arai has been a relentless critic of what's been done to children in the name of transactivism. TT commissions numerous professionals to share research and offers a platfform for parents and young people to speak . Well worth a read:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/cass-review-final-report/

8.48 More specifically, gender-questioning young people and their parents have spoken to the Review about online information that describes normal adolescent discomfort as a possible sign of being trans and that particular influencers have had a substantial impact on their child’s beliefs and understanding of their gender.

isn't this something that Helen Joyce is looking into?

Looks like every avenue TRAs use to get to kids will be in the firing line.

InnCognito · 10/04/2024 11:50

I'm by turns furious & sad. The damage some people have done, and the likes of OJ still retweeting the more loopy of the TRA responses.

From a personal perspective delighted to see the recommendations for care for 17-25 year olds.

MrsMurphyIWish · 10/04/2024 11:43

peanutbuttertoasty · 10/04/2024 10:20

There needs to be serious scrutiny of schools and teachers unions next. Alarming to say the least that their response is to double down. Keeping secrets from parents should be illegal.

I hope so.

I’m a teacher and it is my school’s policy to call students by their chosen name and pronouns, with or without parental consent.

I’ve anonymously reported it to the DfE and Ofsted. We had an inspection in the last year and was graded Outstanding. I doubt (sadly) anything will change.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/04/2024 11:32

Just wanted to put Transgender Trend's detailed and informed response on here. Stephanie Davies-Arai has been a relentless critic of what's been done to children in the name of transactivism. TT commissions numerous professionals to share research and offers a platfform for parents and young people to speak . Well worth a read:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/cass-review-final-report/

Cass Review final report - our statement - Transgender Trend

The Cass Review final report has been published. We thank Dr Cass and her team for all their methodical and careful work to produce an extraordinary document that will have influence worldwide. In its breadth and scope, Dr Cass has produced a world-lea...

https://www.transgendertrend.com/cass-review-final-report

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 11:31

Waitwhat23 · 10/04/2024 11:28

Next Scottish Parliament elections are May 2026.

Why do you disagree?

Cos they are going to get a shock at the general and things are going to be legally increasingly dubious for them going forward.

Waitwhat23 · 10/04/2024 11:28

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 11:23

Disagree.

When's the election?

Next Scottish Parliament elections are May 2026.

Why do you disagree?

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 11:23

Waitwhat23 · 10/04/2024 11:18

The Scottish Government seem determined to ignore all this evidence and continue on with this medical scandal. I genuinely think this will be part of the downfall of most political institutions in Scotland.

Disagree.

When's the election?

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 11:19

CorruptedCauldron · 10/04/2024 10:32

Re the feeble attempts to “both sides” this issue. Gender-critical women have NOT contributed to any so-called toxicity.
We never created a climate of fear. We didn’t cancel people or threaten to physically harm or sexually assault them. We didn’t wear masks, bang drums in police horses’ faces, punch elderly people, swear at babies, or carry placards saying “decapitate trans rights activists”. We just argued for our right to define women as females, as a reality-based sex class and not a magical feeling in someone’s head. We called for the preservation of single-sex spaces for reasons of safety, dignity and privacy. We wanted fairness in women’s sports and other competitive arenas. We argued for the safeguarding of children, and for them to be protected from unnecessary medical interventions.

Gender-critical women have been perfectly reasonable from day one. You can’t “both sides” this unless you have the receipts.

Re the bullshit attempt at 'both side' my post...

No comment needed.

Thanks to every other MNetter.

Final Report Cass Review now published
Waitwhat23 · 10/04/2024 11:18

The Scottish Government seem determined to ignore all this evidence and continue on with this medical scandal. I genuinely think this will be part of the downfall of most political institutions in Scotland.