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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Final Report Cass Review now published

308 replies

IwantToRetire · 10/04/2024 02:10

Dr Hilary Cass has submitted her final report and recommendations to NHS England in her role as Chair of the Independent Review of gender identity services for children and young people.

Download from https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

Final Report – Cass Review

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report

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mrshoho · 12/04/2024 09:25

Good to see this. Especially when the likes of Dr Webberley have been busy posting statements 'reassuring' young people that they will continue to offer a medical service privately.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/04/2024 09:17

Datun · 10/04/2024 17:58

Next thing I would like to see is a bit of drilling down into the actual difference between the middle-aged men transitioning, and the children who showed up at GIDS.

Debbie H has told everybody about it being a sexual fetish, and yet, people are still reluctant to say it out loud.

I would actually argue that there are three discrete groups.

  1. Birth registered males with childhood onset gender dysphoria.
  2. Birth registered females with adolescent onset gender dysphoria.
  3. Birth registered males who transition after age 25 or so when their brain has fully developed.

There may be some trans identifying people who do not fit into any of these categories, but I think the vast majority will be one of the above.

The Cass review concerns essentially the first two groups.

The Dutch protocol is based on a study with a small sample size, about 70 patients if I remember correctly, all from the first group. Essentially the entire evidence base for the use of puberty blockers comes from this study, and the protocol itself states that the use of puberty blockers is only indicated where the child has experienced persistent long-term gender dysphoria which does not resolve itself by puberty, and where the child does not have any other psychiatric comorbitities, such as autism.

The first point to note is that these criteria would exclude essentially all patients in the second group from being eligible for puberty blockers. There is absolutely no evidence to support their use in birth registered females with adolescent onset gender dysphoria. So people like Keira Bell have been absolutely let down. All birth registered females with gender dysphoria have been let down, because there is almost no research about the causes of or appropriate treatment for their dysphoria, so everyone in this group who has been prescribed puberty blockers, testosterone or had gender affirming surgery has been the subject of a medical experiment. What we need is research to find out why so many young people in this demographic are suddenly identifying as transgender. I imagine many women could have a good guess, but that is not the same as proper, high quality research.

The second point is that even for the first group, the evidence to support the use of puberty blockers is not great. I am not a doctor, not an expert, and I don't presume to know better than those who are. I do not trust the doctors who have been prescribing these treatments, but I do trust Dr Hilary Cass, who acknowledges that medical transition may be the right treatment for a small number of people. I think we also need more research to identify the potential causes of gender dysphoria in these very young children, which are likely to be different to the causes of gender dysphoria in the second group. Jackie Green may have been convinced that she was a girl from very early childhood, but we also know that Jackie's father is homophobic. Even if gender dysphoria manifests itself early and does not resolve, should we really be prescribing puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery in cases where there is evidence to suggest the cause of the dysphoria may be environmental rather than innate?

Finally, the third group. Probably the most difficult of all to categorise. Perhaps it doesn't make sense to refer to them as one group, as it may include people who have always had gender dysphoria but did not acknowledge it until adulthood, as well as people with different reasons for identifying the way they do. I do not want to say anything to risk having this post deleted, but given that Stonewall and other LGBTQ+ organisations have lobbied for people without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to be able to change their legal sex, I think we must acknowledge the possibility that not all of the people in the third group actually have dysphoria.

Either way, the people in the third group were allowed to go through puberty. In many cases they were able to have a healthy sex life and even have children of their own before deciding to transition. Their brains were fully developed when they chose to embark on any kind of medical transition. Many of them are only on female sex hormones, the effects of which on the male body are temporary, and do not intend to have any surgery. This means that they are more able to detransition without any permanent effects on their body, compared to people who have had surgery or birth registered females who have used testosterone. Some of them may feel that if they had had access to puberty blockers, they would have been better able to "pass" as women and may have avoided a lot of misery and pain. This is a valid point of view. At the same time, if they had had access to puberty blockers they may have ended up with serious physical health issues affecting their quality of life in other ways. They are not the right people to be criticising the Cass report. These are people who were spared the harm that has been done to children in the last ten years. They are not in the group of people Dr Cass is talking about, and the reasons behind their decision to transition are most likely completely different.

Let's hear from Ritchie Herron, let's hear from Sinead Watson, let's hear from Keira Bell. Let's also hear from children currently on the waiting list for gender identity clinics, and their parents, because I am very afraid that these people will be forgotten about.

But I could not be less interested in hearing India Willoughby, a 58 year old newsreader who has fathered a child with her own sperm, dismissing the findings of Dr Hilary Cass, an experienced consultant paediatrician who has been working on this for over four years.

Crankywiddershins · 12/04/2024 07:06

Well that's grit under the foreskin for the private sector.

GenderBlender · 12/04/2024 06:02

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/04/2024 18:13

💯👏
Could not agree with you more!!!!

Cass has said these two cohorta have nothing in common. So important.

BezMills · 12/04/2024 04:09

Strong is right. And powerful

BusyMummy001 · 12/04/2024 03:16

IwantToRetire · 12/04/2024 02:09

Wow, that response is very strong! Hadn’t realised there were any arms of the Labour party who had been shouting about this.

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IwantToRetire · 11/04/2024 18:00

IwantToRetire · 10/04/2024 19:22

David Bell being really clear and sensible on C4 News!

Starts at about 15 minutes in, so should be able to watch on C4+1

David Bell interview on C4 news 10 Aprila 2024
https://www.channel4.com/news/cass-review-a-huge-step-ending-treatment-that-was-doing-harm-says-former-tavistock-trust-governor

Cass review: ‘a huge step ending treatment that was doing harm,’ says former Tavistock Trust governor

Dr David Bell served as a staff governor at the Tavistock Trust and wrote an internal report in 2018, raising concerns brought to him by colleagues about the way the Gender Identity Development Service was treating patients.

https://www.channel4.com/news/cass-review-a-huge-step-ending-treatment-that-was-doing-harm-says-former-tavistock-trust-governor

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IwantToRetire · 11/04/2024 17:59

Okay another list - not sure whether I should make this a thread, but in the meantime a few more responses to the Final Report:

BMJ https://www.bmj.com/content/385/bmj.q837

School Nurse and Public Health Nurses https://saphna.co/news/saphnas-response-to-todays-publication-of-the-cass-review/

Alba https://www.albaparty.org/regan_urges_yousaf_to_ensure_children_are_protected_from_harm

Scottish Trans https://www.scottishtrans.org/our-initial-response-to-the-publication-of-the-cass-review-10-4-24/

TENI https://teni.ie/teni-transgender-equality-network-ireland-statement-on-cass-review-into-gender-identity-services-for-children-and-young-people/

Welsh Consrvatives https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/24244354.welsh-conservatives-push-cass-report-recommendations/

SNP refuse to give public statement about Cass Review https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-refuse-give-public-statement-32566157

SNP refuse to give public statement about Cass Review and puberty blockers

The Scottish Government is under pressure to declare publicly what its plans are for responding to the damning Cass Review about gender identity health care for children.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-refuse-give-public-statement-32566157

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MrsLeonFarrell · 11/04/2024 11:27

PronounssheRa · 11/04/2024 09:12

Many moons ago David Cameron said that lobbying would be the next political scandal, he was referring to corporate lobbying if I recall, but that really extends to all forms of lobbying including by the charity sector.

Government really needs to understand why groups like stonewall had such influence over Government policy and not just in 'health care' but also rewriting vaste swathes of policy to get ahead of the law.

At least 10 years ago I knew someone who visited Downing Street semi regularly. He said then that there were always trans lobbyists trying to advance their agenda. It is unhealthy how much lobbying, of many kinds, goes on in private.

I hope that one lesson learnt from this is that public debate of issues is helpful when trying to create balanced policy.

ApocalipstickNow · 11/04/2024 09:21

”Good lord, what prompted that?”

People had stopped talking about India Willoughby for 5 minutes?

PronounssheRa · 11/04/2024 09:12

Many moons ago David Cameron said that lobbying would be the next political scandal, he was referring to corporate lobbying if I recall, but that really extends to all forms of lobbying including by the charity sector.

Government really needs to understand why groups like stonewall had such influence over Government policy and not just in 'health care' but also rewriting vaste swathes of policy to get ahead of the law.

WarriorN · 11/04/2024 08:25

I also call for the immediate removal of any influence of Stonewall and its cohort from our schools, hospitals and public spaces. Never again can we allow such a toxic and dangerous ideology to proliferate in our institutions.

There needs to be a statutory inquiry

mrshoho · 11/04/2024 08:24

Calling · 11/04/2024 08:06

Has anyone heard what Anneliese Dodds had to say? Thanks.

Also I just want to say thank you to all on FWR for all these threads, which educated me.

Radio silence from Dodds other than reposting Streetings statement.

She did only a day ago post 'Labour would bring in a no loopholes ban on conversion practices.'

Vod · 11/04/2024 08:18

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/04/2024 07:54

She's another hero in this awful battle for children's safety

She really is.

BezMills · 11/04/2024 08:17

"Even a stopped cock"

Datun · 11/04/2024 08:14

IwantToRetire

Thanks for all the links.

I haven't read them all but there's a noticeable difference between the people who have actually read the report and understand its implications, and stonewall and mermaids, etc, who are trying to gloss over it all and spin it onto themselves as positively as they possibly can. Obviously something that even India Willoughby can see straight through.

Stonewall desperately spinning:

"We urge NHS England and policymakers to read and digest the full report and consider Dr Cass' plea 'to remember the children and young people trying to live their lives and the families/ carers and clinicians doing their best to support them. All should be treated with compassion and respect

Meanwhile, Allison Bailey pulls back the curtain

The Cass Review has confirmed that our concerns were right. But by raising them we elicited vitriol on an unimaginable scale from Stonewall and its allies, which continues to this day.

Continues to this day

I also call for the immediate removal of any influence of Stonewall and its cohort from our schools, hospitals and public spaces. Never again can we allow such a toxic and dangerous ideology to proliferate in our institutions.

Yeah, she won't be alone. Hopefully Willoughby's insight will be accurate for once.

Calling · 11/04/2024 08:06

Has anyone heard what Anneliese Dodds had to say? Thanks.

Also I just want to say thank you to all on FWR for all these threads, which educated me.

Snowypeaks · 11/04/2024 07:58

Wonderful from Allison Bailey.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/04/2024 07:54

mrshoho · 11/04/2024 07:53

She's another hero in this awful battle for children's safety

DeanElderberry · 11/04/2024 07:49

The figure for 'trans people' may be linked to the census returns - which were flawed for all the reasons discussed at length here.

Snowypeaks · 11/04/2024 07:48

missin · 11/04/2024 02:04

Pressed send too fast

But who counted this figure IW suggests and how is it counted?

I have to fight and wait years for treatment for my health conditions... as a woman, I encounter the world not being as easy for me as many every day as a disabled person... heck I get offered psych support for my pain management, because the drugs I take long term can cause negative consequences (even fatal) .... it's not possible that no trans person is not incapacitated in some form physically or mentally or also black or Jewish.. I'm just missing how you could compare populations that surely overlap and say they are equal in size?

You are so right.. it's an idiotic comparison by IW.

missin · 11/04/2024 02:07

Lots of drugs have long term negative consequences

Why is it a bad thing to recognise that is possible when it's not even tested long term?

Why are we bullying to state simple logic?