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Original poster

Struggling to answer DS’s questions on why some men are so awful

37 replies

Catabogus · 09/04/2024 10:57

DS is 11 and is quite a sensitive lad. For quite a while he has been asking me why so many men are so awful. I don’t know what to say!

This started with public lavatories - after using the ladies’ with me up to age 8, he switched to the men’s and noticed that it was often badly vandalised, much filthier than the women’s and sometimes full of disgusting graffiti. He absolutely hated it and kept asking why men would do that to their loo.

He is very interested in the news and often asks about conflict (Ukraine, Israel) or violence (communal, individual or domestic - or against animals). He notices that it is almost always perpetrated by boys/men, seems upset and has asked me why.

Most recently we have had a short chat about pornography (I felt I needed to cover this before he’s exposed to anything on a friend’s phone at secondary school). I mentioned that the sex in porn is unrealistic and sometimes frightening or violent towards women. He was SO HORRIFIED that I felt I’d done something wrong in even broaching the topic. For days afterwards he kept asking me “but why, Mum?? WHY do men want to watch that?” and appeared close to tears. I found this question really hard to answer.

I think I urgently need to do something to improve his image of men. He has even said “I don’t like being a man” a couple of times. His father is great - very respectful, hands-on and does more housework and childcare than I do - and I’ve stressed that lots of men are good ones like his dad. I’ve pointed out good examples of decent, positive men in the public eye. I’ve also tried to explain that it’s not (just) nature but the way they’re brought up and treated by society that influences men to behave as they do - so by bringing up the next generation well we can influence how they turn out. I’ve told him he is caring and decent and isn’t going to be a violent, abusive man.

But I think I need to do something more. I’m struggling to provide proper, age-appropriate answers to his questions, and I could really do with some more ideas on how to promote a positive, healthy self-image for him. (DH will help, I’m sure, and is a great role model, but isn’t the best at heart-to-heart conversations on these issues).

Thank you all very much for any ideas!

OP posts:
BackToLurk · 09/04/2024 12:11

Weird question but would he be interested in climbing. IME it's full of vaguely hippyish lads who combine their strong male bodies with not being complete dicks

Newsenmum · 09/04/2024 12:11

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And perhaps how it can also make him protective and powerful in a good way? And can be really good to channel this into sports or something active.
The pornography one is difficult too because you want to make it clear that he’s not a bad person when he starts getting sexual attraction he just needs to be aware of what he is consuming. Men can be wonderful and he will be one of them.

Mermoose · 09/04/2024 12:10

Can I ask what you have in mind by “why societies need masculinity”?

One place you might find some good advice on this is from Lisa Marchiano. She's a Jungian - jungianism overall seems a bit flimflam to me but there are definitely some good ideas in it, it allows for the good in masculinity, and Marchiano seems to have a very good constructive approach. She's on Twitter as far as I know.

Janpoppy · 09/04/2024 12:08

Teaching children to analyse and be critical of media is a a helpful part of the picture. Whether we like it or not we are influenced by what we are exposed to. You can talk with him about how boys and men are portrayed in films, music, advertising and pop culture vs how girls and women are portrayed.

Also have you watched Jackson Katz's TED talk, or other TED talks on "The Man Box"? I think they'd be helpful.

Original poster
Catabogus · 09/04/2024 11:58

Mermoose he reads all the time but seems to enjoy traditional adventure novels most. I will encourage some Terry Pratchett, that’s a good idea.

Amaryllis his father thinks it will all be fine, ie isn’t really an issue. He is much more laid back than I am. I may be overthinking things - it’s possible! But I do worry as I think this is a difficult and formative age for boys.

ReasonablePerson - thanks, that’s interesting. Can I ask what you have in mind by “why societies need masculinity”? I think a bit more of that approach might be very helpful but am not sure how to start.

OP posts:
Original poster
Catabogus · 09/04/2024 11:55

Thanks a lot - these are really helpful replies!

Warrior I don’t know of Men At Work but will look it up. Thanks!

Kitty I feel very nervous of using any essentialist explanation like “men have testosterone so they…” - seems to me there’s a lot of scope for this to be heard as though it’s inevitable men behave badly. So I’ve been stressing the socialisation angle. You’re right though, I could talk about how men’s aggression can be harnessed for good things. I will think it over.

MissScarlet he has a ton of interests, but they’re mostly boys only (eg single-sex sport) or solitary (eg reading). There doesn’t seem to be much boy/girl mixing in his class - not sure if this is just the norm at his age. He does have a few activities that are mixed sex but even there they seem to divide up boys/girls.

I should add that I don’t think he’s actually witnessed any boy-on-girl bullying in person at all, which is perhaps why it has come as such a shock to him to learn what men can get up to in the adult world.

OP posts:
AReasonablePerson · 09/04/2024 11:34

I think also the simple highlight that it is the behaviour that is bad and not the person goes a long way with youngsters. Remembering back and from observation preteens and teens and young adolescents worry a lot about what they "are". So emphasising that people are not their behaviour, that everyone messes up, that forgiveness for wrongdoing is important, and that badly behaved young men often grow into very decent men is important. Testosterone may well be as scary and hard to handle for men and boys as it can be for women and girls. Also it is important to highlight why societies need masculinity.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 09/04/2024 11:33

What does his father say (to you) about this? I think it's really his father who needs to have a chat with him. You can't do it for him and he very much needs to try his best. He is your DS's role model. His son becoming a man is not an area of life where he can play second fiddle to you.

Mermoose · 09/04/2024 11:28

Does he read much? Encourage him to read books by good compassionate men - doesn't have to be anything heavy, Terry Pratchett was brilliant at being humane and profound while also funny and lighthearted. That lets him get inside the heads of men who he can be proud of.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 09/04/2024 11:28

What are his interests, apart from current affairs? Does he have any hobbies?

I think I would be inclined to encourage him towards mixed sex activities where boys and girls are engaging in healthy pursuits in a respectful environment, such as a choir or orchestra if he is musical. Something where both sexes are participating as equals and where the activity itself is sufficiently all consuming to not really leave much scope for bullying or gathering round some little oik's smartphone watching inappropriate material online.

KittyEars · 09/04/2024 11:25

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WarriorN · 09/04/2024 11:21

Have you come across Men at Work? It's a cic that works in schools but may be able to offer other advice.

You could approach your son's school too and suggest they look at something like men at work coming in.

Michael Conroy has been on WH a couple of times