Guardian readers on 'misogynistic womanface'

I will put up my hand and say that there is - in my humble opinion - good drag and bad drag.

Good drag is Cissie and Ada, Lily Savage, pantomime dames, Cupid Stunt and so on. They're not trying to be women, it's an act and very clearly so. It comes, as far as I'm concerned, from the music hall and burlesque traditions of sending something up or making a point about subverting societal norms. Or it's just being funny - in the case of Cissie and Ada, a very working-class sort of humour given the characters they represented - because the humour lies in something not being how we expected or so exaggerated as to be ridiculous while maintaining a kernel of reality we find funny.

Bad drag is just woman-face, it's horrible, grotesque and mocking. And there's a fuck-ton of it about. It's a cheap, poor, lazy imitation of what drag should be, and that's before we get to the bit where some performers actually call themselves women, as if the horrible character they project is actually a representation of a female. Burlesque went the same way; there were some very good acts out there that were very funny (the best I saw was a woman doing a burlesque strip-tease that (deliberately) went wrong: she got her top stuck on her head, fell over her tights and so on) or very beautiful, clever or had something to say. But then it went mainstream and suddenly every corporate gig had some woman flouncing about in a rhinestone bikini for a bit before whipping it all off and waving some tassels around. What was the point of that beyond a bit of tedious and gratuitous "Oooh, look at us being naughty!" nudity?

The woman-face end of things is just crass and has to become more so to get attention. And it's doing down a genuine art-form, IMO.

That's true. We should bring the "female impersonator" description back into more general use.

I like drag shows, but think they belong in pubs and nightclubs. I don’t understand why we are acting like there’s been some kind of Bolshevik revolution and we have to scrutinise every aspect of our lives for wrong think.

That depends on the act. Many performers are clear on who they are out of drag and many are clear that they identify as men. Drag is an act, a performance, a show, a job: but not who they are. It may be a form of escapism, a facet of their personality, an alter-ego but that's not for all performers. One size doesn't fit all.

RuPaul himself was very clear back in the day that the art of Drag was very different to transsexual and was just a liberating costume, very clear on his own identity as a man and didn't conflate the two.
It was only when the trans umbrella was widened to include transvestism/cross-dressing (which again, one can argue is different to drag performance) and transgender as opposed to transsexuality, that RuPaul was pretty much told he had to educate himself so as not to get cancelled.

Danny La Rue used to term himself as a “female impersonator”, and along with the other artists mentioned used to make it clear their female characters were an act and not an aspect of their own personality. If being interviewed on Parky or Wogan, it was clear from the way they were being introduced what to expect - eg was it Barry Humphries turning up or Dame Edna? I’d put Mrs Merton/Caroline Aherne in the same category to be honest, it’s just her character was the same sex as her.

With modern drag artists it is difficult to separate the man from the character. The character is the dominant force, it is part of the artists personality. And I think that’s the main reason I feel so uncomfortable about the modern form of drag. Not that the old fashioned type doesn’t have misogynistic aspects, but it was clear it was an act, not a personality.

Any name? Not necessarily. There are nineteen misogynist drag artist names and one disablist drag artist name. Twenty too many.
But there are hundreds of performers.
Many names are just plays on words.
Examples:
Brand names: Minnie Cooper, Jan Sport, Brita Filter
Drugs: Kita Mean, Crystal Methyd
Objects: Barbie Q, Plastique Tiara, Elektra Fence
Foods: Tia Kofi, Baga Chipz, Shuga Cain, Kim Chi, Sminty Drop, Black Peppa
Places: Cheddar Gorgeous, Brooke Lynn Hytes, River Medway, Monet X Change
Not female: Yuri Guaii, Faux Fur, Sum Ting Wong
Not out: Heidi N Closet, Charlie Hides
Personality: Ivana Vamp, Imaa Queen, Mimi Imfurst, Amadiva
Plays on celebs: Tina Burner, Choriza May, Kendall Gender
Puns: Farrah Moan, Gia Metric, Elektra Shock, Hannah Conda, Ella Vaday, Courtney Act, Kitty Scott-Claus, Aubrey Haive, Rita Menu
Joe Black, Derrick Barry, Lawrence Chaney all used own names. Bob the drag queen thought Bob was funny (audience member hadn't heard their name and thought they were called Kate. I assume Blackadder reference). Danny Beard always keeps his beard.

The twenty names which I agree are offensive don't reflect the hundreds of names performers have chosen.
In all walks of life, you'll have a minority who don't reflect the masses.

Well, I'm going to get shot down for this......but there are drag artists and drag artists. I liked Paul O'Grady and his Lily Savage, Les Dawson and Roy Barracklough's Cissie and Ada, also Dick Emery and Morecambe &Wise's female characters. What about Barty Humphries Dame Edna? All now sadly departed. Don't recall any of them being demeaning to women though, they were just characters. And of course there is a long tradition of men in drag in pantomime. Can't image Cinderella without male ugly sisters.

I think that's true. The Guardian's moderation team seems to be staffed entirely by youthful trans activist zealots who will delete any comment critical of gender ideology, however reasonably and politely worded. And if you do it more than once, they will ban you.

It’s amazing what blind spots people have. Progressives are happy to explain to everyone that gay folk are just like straight folk, but then it comes as a surprise that there’s misogyny in a men’s club? Say it ain’t so!

Any drag name will tell you that this is demeaning to women - not an art form.

I think people are scared to criticise drag because of the obvious links to the gay community. And of course some enjoy the digs at women. I voiced my dislike of drag as it is womanface and takes the piss out of women in an all female group and was told it was an integral part of gay culture. So that makes it okay then? Interestingly the only time I have experienced voiced hatred for being straight (and being perceived as treading on gay toes for participating in an activity) was from a gay man who does drag. He wasn't in drag at the time so no excuses it was part of a performance.

Both great letters. My opinion is with the first, but the second at least correctly characterises many people's dislike of drag.

It's great to see people getting the knickers to actually say this stuff out loud

I love that expression and I shall use it henceforth.

I agree with Dr Grace Barnes. Drag acts have made me feel sick to the stomach even when I was too young to know why.

Having been raised in a house full of sexist men (think 'Women are put on Earth to satisfy men' told to a small girl) the struggle to find confidence was hard enough without the likes of Danny La Rue parodying and making women look ridiculous on TV.

I cannot understand why they are still acceptable, feted even, when blackface is absolutely rightly not.

Pretty sure I got moderated (and later perma-banned) for making a comment on the guardian comparing drag to black-face.
Although for some reason what would be deemed unacceptable in the comments section is sometimes published in the letters section. Not sure if there's any logic to that other than different people making the decision.

Great letters. It's great to see people getting the knickers to actually say this stuff out loud and not be intimidated into pretending they don't see it.

Just seen this, great letters and great it's in the guardian!