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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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Leafstamp · 09/04/2024 11:30

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:15

Someone mentioned neurodiversity up thread. There are lots of parallels with trans advocacy and autism advocacy whereby a belief is held that all decisions about autistic people should be made by autistic people and no validity or weight should be given to anyone else. This is what is, in my view, kryptonite to school leaders / governing bodies and other institutions. This zeitgeist seems to shut off leaders critical thinking, or maybe their courage to share their critical thinking. The bottom line is that they are the decision makers and need to lead from listening to a wide range of experts, not just experts through experience.

This is becoming a huge issue.

I know services set up for children where the adults are both autistic and fully signed up to the idea of gender identity. And so seem to think they can advocate freely for both.

This also stuck out for me from your post that Warrior quoted @Brainworm

Massive issues with autism groups, charities etc being dissenting of anyone who is not fully paid up to gender identity beliefs. These groups really need to listen to Dr Cass and review their ways.

borntobequiet · 09/04/2024 11:03

WH had what seemed to be a very good piece on women’s refuges today, though I didn’t catch all of it.
EB presenting.

FrancescaContini · 09/04/2024 10:41

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:33

Oh EB on Today programme? 🤪

Today MUST be going to cover it, surely.

That would be great! Hope she’s promoted soon to join Justin as a fellow voice of reason.

FinallyASunnyDay · 09/04/2024 10:39

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:35

I logged on online on my phone and still can't edit 😖

I never can either. Second class citizens!

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:35

I logged on online on my phone and still can't edit 😖

Brainworm · 09/04/2024 10:34

I'm on the app too - which adds to my typos!

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:33

Oh EB on Today programme? 🤪

Today MUST be going to cover it, surely.

FrancescaContini · 09/04/2024 10:31

Place marking. Also wondering if EB will discuss on WH. Or Emily M on Newsnight?? Please?

ArabellaScott · 09/04/2024 10:28

Oh gosh. If you're on the app all bets are off!

OP posts:
WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:26

Is it because I'm on the app?

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:26

Testing edit - I still can't do it!

ArabellaScott · 09/04/2024 10:23

Brainworm · 09/04/2024 10:11

Sorry - lots of typos in my post...the most significant is that of writing 'patient' rather than professional in relation to delivering treatment/ therapy.

I mist learn how to edit posts. I can't even find the option,

Top three dots.for editing.

Cass review - out on Wednesday
OP posts:
IcakethereforeIam · 09/04/2024 10:18

I can see lots of lawsuits. Not just the kids who have been damaged directly but possibly even the boys and girls who were forced to share spaces that were meant to be single sex. This could affect schools, the scouts, guides, all kinds of organisations. This could be going on for decades.

Thanks to everyone for the articles, share tokens and links.

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:15

Someone mentioned neurodiversity up thread. There are lots of parallels with trans advocacy and autism advocacy whereby a belief is held that all decisions about autistic people should be made by autistic people and no validity or weight should be given to anyone else. This is what is, in my view, kryptonite to school leaders / governing bodies and other institutions. This zeitgeist seems to shut off leaders critical thinking, or maybe their courage to share their critical thinking. The bottom line is that they are the decision makers and need to lead from listening to a wide range of experts, not just experts through experience.

This is becoming a huge issue.

I know services set up for children where the adults are both autistic and fully signed up to the idea of gender identity. And so seem to think they can advocate freely for both.

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 10:14

How many more sessions left for Emma Barnett on WH?

Tomorrow...?

Brainworm · 09/04/2024 10:11

Sorry - lots of typos in my post...the most significant is that of writing 'patient' rather than professional in relation to delivering treatment/ therapy.

I mist learn how to edit posts. I can't even find the option,

Brainworm · 09/04/2024 10:08

I am anticipating the Cass report being sensitively worded and focussing on the treatment of distress. The Guardian is right not to mention 'trans' in their article as children and young people are referred to specialist services because they are suffering and need help. This is where the CASS report kicks in - they need a high standard of care that will improve their long term outcomes, and where it's the case that the evidence base is lacking, the approach needs to be carefully considered by a multidisciplinary team with expertise across different fields.

For most other groups, a report suggesting the above would be welcome with open arms (with caveats relating to adequate funding coming alongside it). Sadly, I think vocal TRAs will promote this as a barbaric development that will harm. This will be fuelled by vitriol from some who have been hurt and angered by the damage caused through meeting the one dimensional demands of TRAs.

As someone working in this field, my approach (which is authentic) will be to say that as long as each patient (who will be be treated for gender related distress, or what is manifesting as gender related distress) is skilled and working to a protocol that is rigorous, the children should be in safe hands. Clinicians at this level are *or certainly should be) skilled in supporting those with suicidal ideation and assessing the risks. They also are skilled at managing ultimatums based on this.

Some people, believe in good faith, that it is abusive to deny physical treatment to those experiencing distress. We are in a culture of over prescribing, and in the case of mental health, providing medication rather than addressing the problems in living causing the symptoms. For those working with vulnerable children presenting with gender distress, medication offers an alluring promise of a quick fix. If they buy the idea that this is being denied due to governmental interference and ideology, this will not help matters at all. For many (most in my experience) parents and teachers, the children they have in mind needing tier 3 services are ones who make themselves so small, as if to try to be invisible. The ones that bang on about being non binary and demanding trigger warnings aren't the ones being referred by them or parents (those referrals came from Mermaids and other local LGBT support groups). I am confident (well I hope) that Cass will address referral routes and provide guideline about referral. I think she will make it clear who this service is for.

I don't imagine the service will be one for young people for whom all aspects of their life are fine other than they wish to alter their sexed bodies and don't want this want pathologised. I expect this group will be left without an NHS funded service for this. This has always been the case but perception fuelled by bad practice is why some thought otherwise. The options for this group will be to pay for private treatment (for as long as this is allowed), or to wait until they are eligible for adult services - hopefully at 25. However, I expect the CASS review will trickle through there as well and they may well be reviewed also.

Someone mentioned neurodiversity up thread. There are lots of parallels with trans advocacy and autism advocacy whereby a belief is held that all decisions about autistic people should be made by autistic people and no validity or weight should be given to anyone else. This is what is, in my view, kryptonite to school leaders / governing bodies and other institutions. This zeitgeist seems to shut off leaders critical thinking, or maybe their courage to share their critical thinking. The bottom line is that they are the decision makers and need to lead from listening to a wide range of experts, not just experts through experience.

ArabellaScott · 09/04/2024 09:20

Amelia Gentleman has been good on this subject, especially given the paper she's publishing in.

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 09/04/2024 09:17

AnneLovesGilbert · 09/04/2024 08:51

Guardian article. Doesn’t use the word trans once.

Blimey. I nearly fell off my chair reading that.
It actually looks like... journalism.

RainWithSunnySpells · 09/04/2024 08:42

Archive copy of the Times article.
https://archive.is/XEGvs

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 08:38

Some believe that socially transitioning kids will lock them into a gender identity and medical pathway that is detrimental. Cass emphasises that gender expression is indeed fluid and changeable for adolescents and that many may take till their mid-20s to settle. In other words, leave these kids alone.

Indeed, faced with this huge increase in kids saying they are trans, many schools have acquiesced. Yet teachers are not clinicians, nor are they there to diagnose children. Do they understand what they are doing? The entire narrative around trans children has been imported from America but it is breaking apart.

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 08:35

Suzanne Moore has written a piece in the telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/04/09/cass-report-trans-children-have-been-lied-to-by-adults/

WarriorN · 09/04/2024 08:19

So, tomorrow, not today as the times suggested?