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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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FinallyASunnyDay · 10/04/2024 09:05

Propertylover · 10/04/2024 08:59

I haven’t read the report yet but from what I have read on TwitterX Dr Cass was not provided with the data to review NHS patient records to track outcomes. As a pp said Savid Javid supported the release of this data as health minister.

What are they trying to hide?

They don't track outcomes. Perhaps they are trying to hide this fact by not cooperating? The Laurels published a small amount of outcome data a few years ago, but this was exceptional and my understanding is that it is 'too hard' to track outcomes (NHS number changes... loss to follow up etc etc)

Not our problem, guv

Datun · 10/04/2024 09:04

nauticant · 10/04/2024 09:02

Amazingly, Radio 4 have turned to Helen Joyce for comment and just broadcasted what she said. I thought she was surreptitiously banned from the BBC.

Perhaps they're finally realising that they can no longer be so bloody partisan.

Brainworm · 10/04/2024 09:04

Amazingly, Radio 4 have turned to Helen Joyce for comment and just broadcasted what she said. I thought she was surreptitiously banned from the BBC.

That was a clip from a longer interview on Radio 5 just after 8am

domineastronomy · 10/04/2024 09:04

Nicky Campbell has just started on R5
This will be interesting. He's been cowardly on this issue and I suspect we'll hear lots of male voices.

Brainworm · 10/04/2024 09:03

My take on Cass' reference to toxicity (which may actually reflect my take, not hers) is that interest groups make demands that don't align with the best available evidence.

With the absence of robust evidence, we don't know which treatment pathways afford the best outcomes. However, there is available evidence to show the best treatment pathways for conditions whereby gender distress is a symptom.

It is likely that if/when we get a better understanding of the range of causes of gender distress, gender dysphoria is likely to be one (in and of itself). This is anticipated by Cass as there is an evidence base relating to this being a very rare condition. It may be the case that a proportion of the very small proportion of people with GD will have better life outcomes following physical intervention, but the key thing is looking at outcomes that go a lot wider than affirming identity.

Datun · 10/04/2024 09:02

I'm sure that during the last 4 years Cass has come to understand exactly what kind of behaviour she will face today.

She's one bloody brave woman.

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 09:02

FrancescaContini · 10/04/2024 08:57

People who trot out the “knew I was a girl because I loved pink and having long hair” line are scarily thick.

It was Hayley? the young transwoman from the recent Big Brother who knew they born in the wrong body, knew at 13 they are a girl etc.

nauticant · 10/04/2024 09:02

Amazingly, Radio 4 have turned to Helen Joyce for comment and just broadcasted what she said. I thought she was surreptitiously banned from the BBC.

Propertylover · 10/04/2024 08:59

I haven’t read the report yet but from what I have read on TwitterX Dr Cass was not provided with the data to review NHS patient records to track outcomes. As a pp said Savid Javid supported the release of this data as health minister.

What are they trying to hide?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/04/2024 08:58

FrancescaContini · 10/04/2024 08:57

People who trot out the “knew I was a girl because I loved pink and having long hair” line are scarily thick.

I didn’t have long hair or wear dresses when I was a girl 🤔 does that mean I was a boy??

FrancescaContini · 10/04/2024 08:57

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 08:51

https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1777960781977407599?s=19

"I've just been on BBC radio 5 live.You can probably listen back. From about 8.10. Listen from 8.05 to catch the transwoman before me who explains he was always a girl because as a child he wore a blonde wig and pink dresses."

People who trot out the “knew I was a girl because I loved pink and having long hair” line are scarily thick.

Datun · 10/04/2024 08:55

Redshoeblueshoe · 10/04/2024 07:52

Ed Balls saying kids are not going to be able to get what they NEED, Kate Garraway interjected - WANT.

He's doubling down?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 10/04/2024 08:53

From the Guardian article about children as footballs

"Cass says it is not her job to comment on whether some professionals should face disciplinary proceedings for their role in what has gone wrong.
“I don’t think you can point a finger at anyone in particular; it’s been a system failure,” she said.
“The toxicity of the debate has been so great that people have become afraid to work in this area.”
Medical professionals experienced a sense of fear “of being called transphobic if you take a more cautious approach”, she said.
Others were worried that they might be accused of conducting “conversion therapy if, again, they take a cautious or exploratory approach” and some clinicians expressed “fearfulness about what colleagues might say if they speak up and express an opinion that is not consistent with theirs”.
Gender medicine ‘built on shaky foundations’, Cass review findsRead moreThe consequence of this rising nervousness among clinicians over the past 15 years has been that many children exploring their gender (which Cass describes as “a normal process” in adolescence, not necessarily requiring any NHS input) have been prematurely diverted towards chronically oversubscribed specialist clinics, and left sitting on waiting lists for years, without any support."

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/04/2024 08:52

nauticant · 10/04/2024 08:41

I haven't read the report, but I'm hearing from the reports about Cass criticising the "toxicity around the debate". Taken out of context that sounds like a "both sides" thing but I get the impression she's talking about the toxicity that made medical professionals unable to speak up about needing to exercise more care. Is that right?

That’s how I read it. Basically anyone trying to challenge this within the NHS was shut down

i really hope that action of some kind is taken against the then Board of Tavistock & Portman NHS tryst who allowed mermaids an undue level of influence in a medical setting and it seems enabled GIDS to behave in such a clinically irresponsible manner

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 08:51

https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1777960781977407599?s=19

"I've just been on BBC radio 5 live.You can probably listen back. From about 8.10. Listen from 8.05 to catch the transwoman before me who explains he was always a girl because as a child he wore a blonde wig and pink dresses."

https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1777960781977407599?s=19

SinnerBoy · 10/04/2024 08:47

Boiledbeetle · Today 08:12

I can't be arsed trawling TRA twitter, but I did just switch to my sock account to go find IWs take on things!

I looked and was entirely unsurprised to see them's usual, deranged, fact-free outpouring of shite.

nauticant · 10/04/2024 08:41

I haven't read the report, but I'm hearing from the reports about Cass criticising the "toxicity around the debate". Taken out of context that sounds like a "both sides" thing but I get the impression she's talking about the toxicity that made medical professionals unable to speak up about needing to exercise more care. Is that right?

Slothtoes · 10/04/2024 08:33

Haven’t had time to read anything but the BBC article. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68770641 which leads on the UK news agenda grid on the BBC website; they are definitely not hiding it away.

And apart from quoting Cass on ‘toxicity’ of debate as though ‘debate’ has always been allowed, and as though that toxicity was an equal measure coming from concerned parents, women and detransitioned people and whistleblowIng health care professionals vs angry rape and death-threat-making, attempted career-ruining TRAs.. everything reported looks sensible by BBC, everything Cass is reported to be saying looks sensible.

The government response from Sunak is particularly pathetic because this child damage is entirely on their governmental watch, they have had over ten years’ warnings and fears expressed directly to them. They have done nothing to stop this. Previous Tory governments would have introduced self ID.

Remember the Cass report is not a government report- it was commissioned by the NHS. Left to itself nothing would have been done by these Tory governments including the present one, despite apparently knowing what a woman is. So yes they bloody well should be listening to Cass And yes, the reported Labour commitment in response, to follow Cass’s recommendations from Wes Streeting looks good.

I obviously need to read more to know if anything has been missed off in the BBC headlines- for example if Cass has mentioned toxic social media climate without mentioning professional, media and parliamentary climate being stacked against evidence based research and treatment, if so then she’s missed something important…but let’s see.

But all in all I feel emotional and so relieved. Thank you so much to Cass and her team. It has taken a medic to end this sort of a medical and social scandal.

Hopefully there’s no coming back from this for the professional experimentation on distressed children. I first wrote to my (Labour) MP about this over ten years ago and got an apparently open to discussion response. Then no action at all. For years. I lost sleep over this for years with two gender distressed young people in my circle.

Finally now everything we deduced on these boards- the lack of research, the lack of follow up, the lack of holistic psychological support for the kids in psychological distress, the misinformation, the treatment options skewed by aggressive advocacy from a male sexual rights and sexual access lobby with a whole lot to gain from child transition, all must now be coming to light- I’m guessing it’s all in there.

Obviously there should be a public inquiry for full sunlight and fresh air. And let’s see what the NHS, the trans lobby Stonewall, mermaids, all of them, have to say in response and what they will do.

Until that public inquiry happens, I am thinking of all the distressed children who may or may not have had any adult to speak for them and have been harmed immensely or just never received proper or timely support and who have continued unmet needs. I am thinking the terrified parents and carers trying to raise the alarm unheeded because their experience didn’t fit the political narrative.

And I am so grateful for the women on this board past and present, who contributed to raising the alarm in so many ways and who did not give up. Thank you. Flowers

Anonymous young person looking out to sea

Hilary Cass: Weak evidence letting down children over gender care

A landmark report says "toxicity" of debate is hampering medical research into gender services.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68770641

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/04/2024 08:32

the pushback is going to be very heavy on the emotional blackmail/suicide/you have made children sad I hope you’re happy variety. Already happening on AIBU

ResisterRex · 10/04/2024 08:31

Ed Balls? The man who sacked a public servant on live TV? Shocked I tell you, shocked.

ResisterRex · 10/04/2024 08:29

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 08:12

I can't be arsed trawling TRA twitter, but I did just switch to my sock account to go find IWs take on things! (You'll need to click on image my tech won't let me crop the image this morning)

Sigh.

Is this actionable? I'd consider it if I were SM.

CaptainWarbeck · 10/04/2024 08:24

At least people unable to tolerate their sexed bodies will no longer have the incorrect narrative that medical transition is likely to be the answer to their issues.

Brainworm · 10/04/2024 08:20

Has anyone yet mentioned that the NHS has confirmed there will be a review of adult services.

I feel very sorry for people of all ages today who absolutely believe that they cannot tolerate their sexed bodies and the only way out of their distress is physical treatment. It must feel desperate and that they only hope you have for happiness (or even reduced distress) is slipping away.

Whilst I think we are nearer to a position whereby better treatments will be in place to support better outcomes, I have grave concerns that the people who need to access these treatment won't be able to due to supply issues.

Mental health services, like many NHS services are chronically under funded and departments who do have funding often don't have the workforce.

CaptainWarbeck · 10/04/2024 08:19

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 08:12

I can't be arsed trawling TRA twitter, but I did just switch to my sock account to go find IWs take on things! (You'll need to click on image my tech won't let me crop the image this morning)

Sigh.

Ironically the Cass report debunks India's deaths and genocide rhetoric