PCS - civil service union - and Unite - protest against women's rights event in Edinburgh

Unions were born out of the private sector, when private businesses were not paying their workers a living wage.

I am a member of PCS, my local branch are sensibly focused on pay and working conditions.

Getting back to the topic of the thread - the marvellous Dennis Kavanagh spotted the usual homophobic / lesbophobic slurs being aimed at women yesterday by protesters:

https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1776622562761465947

You call it "demonising". The rest of us call it exercising critical thinking and democratic debate.

As a member of the NEU for many years I'm fully aware of their good work in supporting members - and how easily they can get side tracked when activists of many types use the union to promote their personal political causes.

A teaching union that openly dismisses DfE guidance, promotes children changing sex in school and that being kept secret from parents is dangerous. Dangerous to children but also to many NEU members who will know that they would have no support from a trans captured union.
Of course they're right to consider looking for an alternative politically neutral union if the NEU behaves in such an unprofessional manner.

Being private sector doesn’t mean “no trade union for me”. It means taking the initiative to protect yourself and your fellow workers by joining a union yourself, inviting your fellow workers to join it too, and then campaigning for formal trade union recognition in your workplace.

Do you imagine that Amazon invited its workers to join GMB?

A better way for you to protect yourself in the workplace, given the problems you say you’ve faced, would be to join a union and influence your workplace policy.

https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/amazon-new-strike-dates

I'm NEU rep at my school. Not demonising Unions just horrified by how they are behaving.

👏👏👏

Exactly. Many of us are union members and have legitimate concerns about them.

Not to mention that your fees are no longer going towards addressing the class struggle but rather to supporting this abject nonsense.

If you set up a donation to a cat charity and they segue into being an arms dealer, “cats still need protection” isn’t much of an argument for continuing your donations.

I have been a union member for most of my working life. I'm not 'demonising' the ones I've been with (including Unite), I'm saying straight up they're not fit for purpose. In my sector, women are leaving unions in droves as the unions don't understand the basics of what we do and take our subs with very little to show for it. Both ACAS and CAB have proven to be far better defenders of our rights than the unions who are simply uninterested in us.

It's very easy to say 'ooh, I'm not in a union but you really should support them' when you're not paying union fees out of your already not great pay.

No. Unions are always tricky. And we all know there are large elements of the Conservative party that would love to get rid of them because they are quite pesky in terms of protecting workers rights.

I'm private sector so no union for me but there's been several occasions in the last couple of years where I'd really have benefited from support and not having to deal with employment issues alone.

I think trade unions are very important in protecting people at work. They usually reflect their members views and are very democratic.

Therefore I'm surprised to see so many posts focussed on demonising them and suggesting members leave. A better way to deal with them would be for more GC members to join and influence policy. Try to get into the leadership roles themselves.

There is a photo on Twitter apparently of a UCU flag at the event on the anti-let-women-speak side of the fence. https://twitter.com/thespiralquirk/status/1776717922322260026

Don’t the teaching unions always have their conferences during the Easter holidays? That usually accounts for a rise in profile of unions in general. Other unions don’t like the teaching ones getting the publicity and start speaking up!

AdamRyan is once again trying to suggest that being 'right wing' is the reason that there are so many criticisms of unions. What Adam fails to understand, no matter how many times they've had it explained, is that many of us used to be in the Labour Party; used to be in trade unions, have been active in 'Left'' politics - but once you realise how much the Left has been captured by american style identity politics generally and gender ideology specifically, it is impossible to look at progressive/left activism in the same way again.

Furthermore, many people have been treated appallingly by their local constituency parties and trade unions - for maintaining their grip on sex based reality. And once you see the shadow and its consequences you can never again see it as morally pure; and you also start to find critique of many other of the Left's shibboleths and articles of faith.

It is akin to distancing yourself from a religious cult. When you are in the cult you cannot see its shape, nor observe its practices clearly. It is only when you leave, or are ejected, that your ability to analyse its failings becomes more acute.

On Twitter it also says UCU were there - but there aren’t any pictures of them. (Or no pictures that I can see at the moment. It seems feasible though, given UCU behaviour in the past.)

Does anyone know of a wiki or similar resource of union position on this issue? Or perhaps a thread with a list? I’m currently a member of two unions as my work is interdisciplinary, but I am not especially impressed with either. Employment rights are for everyone. Even people we disagree with. Even people we don’t like. Or perhaps especially people we disagree with and don’t like. I’m not looking for “a GC union” - just one that won’t decide not to support me in a workplace dispute because my views on something are at odds with union leadership’s views. I think the broader principle here is very important.

Anyway, if anyone is aware of a curated list I would be grateful for a link. If there isn’t a list, I will try and get one started 😊

Working women are in unions. Politically savvy women are interested in what unions say. Mothers are interested in what a teaching union is saying about breaching safeguarding legislation.

Do you think there should be a limit on how many threads about unions are allowed on here?

The NEU ( formerly the NUT) leadership have always been radical agitators....always bolshie and politicking in the staffroom.

At last year's Labour party conference there was a conspicuous number of UNISON members screaming abuse at women who had gathered to speak.

Many people who go into leadership positions in unions see the unions as a route to a political career and so these roles tend to attract the most ideologically and politically motivated. They are usually far more radical and bolshie than most of the membership.

My father used to be an engineering union shop steward. He saw his role as a mediator between workers and management - but there were always others, though, who just wanted permanent aggro and revolution.

Adam, I’d guess several unions are, at the same time, ramping up support for behaviours likely to be damaging for women and children. I wonder why several unions are doing this at the same time? It’s a conspiracy 😱…… or maybe there’s a general election coming?

This is so very true!

I can now only ever assume that those yelling loudly and using instruments to drown out the voices of women are doing so in celebration of the women speaking. That they cannot contain their excitement is why they are accidently drowning out the women’s voices.

AdamRyan · Today 01:06

Why so many threads about unions today? This and the NEU one? Is there some kind of issue with unions on FWR or is it a coincidence?

Because they're different unions, doing similar things, in different circumstances?

NEU has just held its annual conference and decided which issues it’s going to be campaigning on in the run up to the election and its press team has issued press notices publicising these decisions as part of launching that campaign activity.

Unsurprsingly - given that NEU is a teachers union - at least two of those motions affect pupils (and therefore their parents).

But it’s quite the mystery why a discussion forum called Mumsnet would take an interest in teachers campaigning on issues affecting children. I wonder what possible reason there could be?

Definite shift in the comments there. Much blunter, angrier, uncompromising.

I don't know about the UK but in Australia the union movement has fucking thrown women under the bus. Including making sure men can access maternity leave at the expense of mothers. I can even begin to tell you how disappointing being a left wing feminist is at the moment.

Sorry, tell a lie there are 3

Why so many threads about unions today? This and the NEU one? Is there some kind of issue with unions on FWR or is it a coincidence?