Teen boy avoids jail after rape of girl, 12

This girl has been failed completely.

And the bar for boys is so bloody low, it's really upsetting.

I just can't with this. That poor girl.

And this boy is getting the strong message from the judge that what he wants is more important than a girl's life.

We know letting boys and men get away with sexual crimes usually leads to escalation to more serious crimes. Letting him off isn't in his long-term best interests.

Maybe if Wayne Couzens had been arrested, charged and ended up in prison for indecent exposure he wouldn't have gone on to become a murderer.

Agree. "Won't anyone think of the CHILDREN!!, Well not those children, the female ones of course.... just the male ones and how we can make them the victims of their actions and ignore what they've done"

Yes, I am angry.

So am I @deragod

FUCKING angry!

What did Bart Simpson say?

Something along the lines of "I can't promise I'll try,but I promise I'll try to try."

Absolutely!

The facts of the case that we need to know are that he raped a 12 year old girl, and her life contracted from confident and outgoing and gregarious, to depressed and anxious and solitary.

She has since died - the details of her death not being made public - possibly ruled by the court that they can't be made public, and the only reason I can see for that being the case is that she is likely he has died as a direct or indirect result of what was done to her, and they are desperate to protect this POS from this being made known.

My heart aches for that poor little girl and her family. I can't imagine what they are going through.

Meanwhile that vile little shit gets off with "not being kind". Fecking weasel words that mask the horror and sheer terror of a sexual assault. "Not kind" my arse!

Because they don't see it as important anymore apparently they have too many people in jails so are not going to put them away for it anymore.
Great so women can be raped, treated like dirt, made to feel worthless and scared and nothing happens to them.

Thank you for your post @deragod (and the others in agreement that this sentencing is not ok) I think i was actually starting to feel gaslit (and that's not something I've ever put) with the "no, no, you're wrong, you're wrong, think of poor him, there's of course reasons why, we just have to look for them, poor boy".

Her poor parents.

And we wonder why people have no faith in our institutions.

We need to have these institutions to maintain a civilised and developed society, but at the moment they seem to be fucking up at regular intervals. This case. Scottish hate crime law.

Should have been put to a secure unit then onto young offenders.fucking little monster.

Please, stop spreading nonsense about brain maturity.
One media worker did not understand scientific paper and the snowball started. We are physically developing/ maturing into our 20s. however that is a spectrum too, our bodies including brain are constantly changing regardless of age. It has nothing to do with boys and men being unable to understand why rape is 'not kind'.
According to the article it was said he has loving and supporting family.
We also know that, on average, boys see porn for the first time at age 10. There were at least two rape and murder cases that involved 13 years old boys. Their victims were their female schoolmates.
Girls and women are en masse victimised by boys and men. Often by brothers and fathers. Corston's report was published almost 20 years ago. Prisons are full of women who are beaten and raped their whole lives. and their crimes usually do not involve harm to another human being.
I am tired, when it comes to male violence against women and girls the approach too often is grey. Maybe we should start thinking in black and white categories. When it comes to sentencing of women and girls no one asks questions and approach is very much black and white. Men and boys can rely on all shades of grey.

because he is a teenager, because she was provocative, because his father did not love him, because she was there, because women and girls are just lesser human beings responsible for all sins.
Yes, I am angry.

This is a desperately sad case. We all need to remember that a newspaper report probably only quotes part of the legal arguments made by prosecution and defence and the summing up by the judge. The "not selfish" comment might be in response to another remark, although it sounds ridiculous in isolation. All the judge's comments read as if addressed to someone much younger than 16. I would assume the "not guilty" plea was based on consent, and a 13 year old boy was ignorant or uncaring that a 12 year old couldn't give consent?

There is no circumstance where rape isn't selfish. Ever.

What on earth was the judge thinking ? Is he senile?

That is outrageous!

The judge needs reprimanding, he spoke to the teenager like he was a 7 yo.

Proper sentencing guidelines need to be applied. This needs to go in for referral, hope the police/customers do this...

The murderers of James Bulger were younger and were incarcerated, although rightly not in adult prison.

Your first example doesn't in any way apply here.

With your second example, that's why we have the age of criminal responsibility. Abuse victim or not, someone over the age of criminal responsibility is expected to know right from wrong.

Your third example is the only one plausible. If it was applicable, SS should be involved as a child that vulnerable shouldn't have been in a park without parental supervision. And news reports indicate that the third example is unlikely to apply here.

What he did was wrong, absolutely, but I can't comment on the sentencing because I don't actually know what that has been based on.

You keep missing the point by bringing up red herrings such as we dont have all the facts.

The point is for us, the public, the sentence is appalling.

Therefore some of us are using the system the Government has created to question it.

Instead of using thousands of words trying to construct false realities to make it seem it was okay you saying there might be "mitigating" circumstance, do the obvious thing.

Use the process to get the Judge to explain, which is the point of having it.

Hopefully whatever waffle she comes out with, the boy's sentence will be increased and used to explain to boys there WILL be consequences if the assualt girls.

That is what this is about.

There are endless reports (hint you could use google to find them) saying that sexism and actual sexual assualt is increasing in schools. It has to be stamped out.

Selfish is such a small word in the case too, he was abusive, manipulative, evil .... so to deny he was being selfish and say he needs to be kind is such a fucking head fuck.

Poor poor girl and her family. I wish karma was a real thing.

I think in this specific instance, there's been a period of time between what we're now reading and when it actually happened. So we don't actually know what therapeutic or rehabilitation work that boy has done. Nor would that be likely to be made public knowledge.

As someone with personal experience of SA I'm fully aware of the implications it leaves someone with - thank you for reiterating it to me though.

Under no circumstances am I saying rape is fine or acceptable or okay, of course it isn't and of course there needs to be accountability. I'm not naieve. What I'm talking about is fair and appropriate sentencing. And in that respect I feel context matters. Age matters. I don't think making an example out of boys who have also been abused or exploited is the right way to better protect women and girls. What that essentially does is let puppet masters and other abusers walk free and creates scapegoats which I've seen happen - that's just a race to the bottom and it's not appropriate justice either. The problem is that our justice system is so shit and its so difficult to get any prosecution at all. If it was a better system, it would be easier to weed out the more complex cases from the ones where accountability, understanding and intentionality is clearer cut and sentencing would reflect that with an overall higher conviction rate. I and others have said repeatedly through this thread, we have no idea of the ins and outs of this specific case. Why were the other boys not held jointly responsible if they've created a plan to spike a drink. Why was the judges choice of wording so over simplistic. To me, it reads like there is more in the background so I'm not going to make a judgement when i don't have all of the information. What he did was wrong, absolutely, but I can't comment on the sentencing because I don't actually know what that has been based on.

You're wrong Lavender, there is never an excuse to rape, can you not understand that? The minute you allow excuses is the minute you condone abuse. This boy has indirectly taken a life, but you're insinuating that's okay?
Look rape doesn't just impact the person who was rapped, it's like the insidious tentacles of a jellyfish that stings everyone connected to the victim (I hate using that term), it puts a huge cloud over any potential relationship, it destroys trust and mental health, it's tendrils destroy happy healthy relationships for ever. Don't ever underestimate the effects rape has on a person and their loved ones. I can not emphasise enough that rape needs to be considered a very, very serious crime, and the justice system has absolutely failed that little girl....she was 12, 12 years old, with her life ahead of her, and a another child took that away. That is not okay, whatever shit the rapist had going on, he had no right to take it out on another child, no right at all. More to the point if he has difficulties which means he can't control is urges then he needs to be somewhere safe and secure so he can't hurt anyone else, and needs therapy and rehabilitation to ensure everyone's safety. That has not happened, so we can assume he is able to control himself? In which case no excuses. You can't have it both ways he's either had a troubled life and needs to be in a secure place receiving therapeutic interventions, or he's of sound mind and needs an appropriate punishment.

Why is that we must consider the male’s background?

So what if the rapist was slow, does that lessen the trauma the girl/woman experiences? I, quite frankly, do not give a shit if a rapist had a bad life or is disabled. I care about men believing they have a right to girls and women’s bodies.

If learning disabled men are a threat, they should be prevented from accessing females. Not used as an excuse.

In you opinion.

Seriously someone posted a link you responded.

Why didn't you do more research before responding.

A PP has shown it was easy to do.

And any way your comments in response to the description of the crime is just out on a limb.

As the defence barrister made no reference to the boy being in any way from a difficult background I am not sure why anyone is putting this forward. Let alone that he was coerced.

And any way it is complete BS that somebody can be excused of committing crime because they have had a difficult background.

Many people try to use thise "excuse" and they are dismissed.

If the information a PP have put forward that this was about a group of boys drinking then they should all have been charged under joint enterprise.

Is it any wonder so many boys are now rampant misogynists is this is how some adults rationale their behaviour.

A crime was committed. Women get sent to prison for not paying their TV licence because they are poor.

And as for this, oh we shouldn't say anything because we dont know the facts is also bullshit.

This is a public record of a trial and based on that the leniency is appalling and it should be looked into, even if it only leads to the Judge explaining in more details. Because not only is the outcome shameful it is now in the public domain and again feeds into this narrative that boys just cant help themselves.

And it is worth asking for a review to let the judiciary now that they might think they are entitled to "be kind" and understanding. But the public needs to know that sexual assualt and rape crimes are punished.

Men need to know there are consequences for their abuse of women.

Women need to know that men will be punished.

@Imnobody4 I think you should edit your first post to include the second newspaper article reporting fuller details of the case. People will only read and respond about the article you originally linked to if they haven't had time to RFTF, as I did, which means that people will give a COMPLETELY different answer based on just those few sentences with all detail left out. It's not fair for other people who have read further on to then accuse those posters of victim-blaming. You wouldn't sit on a jury for only half the length of a case and then be asked to give your verdict based on half the facts, would you?