"Women freeze or befriend as a survival tactic."

I think its evolutionary because human males are dangerous. Women are wired to be vigilant round them.
I've noticed dogs and cats seem to more often be relaxed around women and wary of men too.

I like fight, flight, freeze, appease personally.

I do "appease" all the time. I think as a woman I learnt quite young that fight or flight were not effective (men can fight back harder or stop you fleeing quite easily)

Thank you for this, I never knew this was a known thing!

IIRC the woman in the Mike Tyson case was asked. Why she at 8 stone didn't fight the heavyweight champion of the world.

13 yo DD can do it too. Me, DH and her will be somewhere, get back in the car and meet each other's eyes. She'll say, "did you see that bloke?" I'll say "brown jacket, jeans?" And she'll agree. DH will be all like "huh? What?" At 13 she will see the creepy bloke who is looking at one of us too much.

She's had good radar since she was a toddler though. I used to work in homeless shelters and clients would come up and chat to me when they saw me with her. Regardless of what they looked like, and some of them looked pretty rough, she would only leg-cling when it was one of the problematic ones. DH has no radar.

I always wonder if she's subconsciously learned from me or if it's because I didn't suppress her feelings. None of the "honey he's FINE, hug him" with relatives.

I found it: https://phys.org/news/2024-02-visually-captures-hard-truth-home.html

Someone posted research published on men and women’s eye movements when assessing different photos/scenarios (eg path to a bridge after dark with a street lamp at the far end and undergrowth each side) which showed exactly what you observed. The FWR thread was posted within the last few weeks.

@Superlambaanana I don't have quite such a cynical view of men, but I would be willing to bet that DH still has no real understanding of this and would still privately think that routinely putting your keys between your fingers when going to your car or ignoring a "friendly" hello is pretty paranoid behaviour.

I bet he still doesn't get it.

Men don't and just can't comprehend what it's like to walk in our shoes (no matter how much the painted face trannies insist they know what it is to be a 'girl').

I have yet to meet a man who has genuinely spent any time trying to understand someone else's point of view on just about anything. Those that claim to are almost universally liars who realise they need to pretend to care about women's rights to sustain leadership positions, garner support from women or maintain relationships with women.

Men just can't see that they are massively and unfairly privileged. And the idea that they should cede some of that power is just anathema to them. Doesn't stop them moaning about women trying to explain the issues and create some social equality of course. Because from a position of privilege, equality feels like oppression.

I agree with you OwlCity in fact I nearly added 'I blame all those superhero movies' to my post.

I grew up watching the Avengers and wanting to be Emma Peel so I understand how easily it can happen, especially for girls who don't have brothers to - literally - bring them back down to earth

I know this will sound trite, but I genuinely blame (at least in part) the last 20 years worth of movies and TV.

The trend to show eg the female cop going toe to toe with a 6ft male body builder and bringing him down.

It was lauded at the time for showing “empowered women” but I think a lot of people actually believe it, so therefore think real-life women just aren’t trying hard enough.

Most men have no idea just how much stronger the average man is compared to the average woman.
I've talked to young women who have no idea either.

Most men have no idea just how much stronger the average man is compared to the average woman. This has become more clear to since becoming interested in the ‘trans’ issue.

And yes, with regards to rapes and physical assaults many men can’t get past ‘why didn’t you fight back’? They simply don’t realise that in 99% of cases the woman just cannot physically do so.

e.g https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17186303/

A few months ago I was alone at an airport, getting my car from the long stay carpark at night. Practically no-one else around. I'm not timid, but when a man then walked past me to his own car, and smiled and said hi, I looked down and didn't engage (and of course my keys had already been between my fingers since I had entered the carpark anyway). We went our separate ways and got our cars, no harm done. My heart was pounding a bit though.

I told this story to DH when I got home, saying that the man had been very thoughtless to do what he did. DH said why shouldn't he be friendly? More people in this world should be friendly. And why on earth were you so rude back?

Adult DD was also there when I told him the story. We both tore a strip off him! I think he was quite shocked, what was blindingly obvious to me and DD had never crossed his mind.

There are couple of predictable men on the linked Twitter thread, saying "Women, you're crap, give up."

I think (most) women have known this forever. So many rape victims have been denied justice because their actions didn't adhere to (male determined) norms/ expectations.

It seems crazy this is only being said now. But the last few years have shown just how far we still had to come (and have yet to go) on women's rights.

The Ulster Rugby rape trial was only in 2016 yet the victim's knickers were passed round the court for jurors to decide if she had been 'looking for sex'. Another case in Cork did the same as recently as 2018!

www.thejournal.ie/underwear-belfast-rape-trial-4358357-Nov2018/

There was also a case in Northern Ireland where a woman was arrested for procuring pills to bring about a termination. (Abortion where the mother's life was not at risk was illegal in NI until 2020 and it's still almost impossible to access services, especially without being picketed by religious zealots on the way in.) It was the poor 21 yo's housemates who reported her, essentially because they didn't think she was upset enough about it all.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/04/northern-irish-woman-suspended-sentence-self-induced-abortion

Some people find it very difficult to comprehend that not everyone is like them. Not everyone reacts the same as they (think they) would.

I'm really sorry that sounds awful, especially with your username.

Imo it's not "hyper" vigilant so much as just - vigilant iyswim. Hyper implies it's excessive but it's often useful/necessary. I see it as a bit of a superpower.

Women can spot danger much quicker than men too.

I'm hypervigilant and acknowledge it.

It's the fruit of several factors in combination, not least of which was growing up with several brothels in nearby houses. From an early age, I had to be able to divert (drunk) men without angering them whenever they knocked at our door (my mum hid and my father intentionally never returned home until very late). It was a high crime area where people were bold enough to break into high-density occupancy homes (i.e., large families in small accommodation) and extract a purse from beneath the sleeping woman's pillow).

My parents' tempers could turn in a flash so I had to learn to sense emotions very quickly as a defence mechanism.

My DH notices nothing and can get irritated when I'm guiding him to cross roads or take subtle evasive action to get us out of danger (I can spot an argument that's about to turn into a brawl).

I am a man but I was small in my early teens so I can relate, a bit, of course not completely the same experience.
I remember that feeling of being physically no match, and just chatting inanely to a bully when stuck 1 on 1, because if they are chatting they aren't assaulting me. Possibly giving the impression I liked them rather than hated and feared them.

Women can spot danger much quicker than men too.

I was watching a thriller movie with dh the other day and, on screen, there was a tiny flicker of movement through a window behind where the main characters were hiding [indicating the baddie had caught up with them] and dh never saw it. I had to rewind it and point it out.

I think that women literally pan their eyes around more, subconsciously, alert for danger. Like scanning for hazards when you're driving, but all the time. I've often had moments IRL where I've said something like "did you see that weird guy by the pool" and dh has no idea.

Or maybe it's just me vs dh. He's a bit dozy.

Cleebop, it makes absolute sense, to try to keep them calm, friendly, not stir up aggression against you till you get the chance to escape.

Gosh yes this sounds so true. When I was 18 working in Spain a man followed me into a lift and masturbated. I was stuck there and I chatted to him and even said bye. I used to think I was silly in my reaction. This shows me it was more of a survival response. It was 35 years ago but you never forget the shock.

This has reminded me how a strange man ‘helped’ me get my very drunk boyfriend home one night (not far). Forced himself in the house despite me saying Thankyou so much well be fine now, and bf crawled upstairs. I was left in the kitchen with this scary guy who wouldn’t leave, edging closer, wanting thanks for his good deed and in panic I offered him a cup of tea!! To play for time I suppose. Sure that would have gone against me in court.
Thankfully one of my (male) housemates had heard the commotion, came down and unceremoniously saw him off. I shudder to think…

It's not 'hard wired', it's learned behaviour. Women learn the most effective ways to escape a threatening situation. From very young.

The recent rugby matter:

www.msn.com/en-sg/sport/other/world-of-rugby-embroiled-in-sexism-row-after-sports-governing-body-was-forced-to-delete-guidance-claiming-men-are-competitive-while-women-are-hard-wired-to-be-empathetic/ar-BB1l60ZP