Reem Alsalem - the definition of woman

Thanks Snowy. It was the final line that got me as she mentions "intersex".

Your reply is exactly why I love Mumsnet! You can't be cranky! That's MY IDENTITY!
And you brought glory holes into the conversation, I'm not taking the fall for that.

Here's the thing.

In English, the word "woman" comes from Old English and predates the Norman Conquest by hundreds of years. If you were to travel back in time to Saxon England and try to have a conversation with someone there, not many words would be intelligible to you, but "woman" probably would be. The same is true of "frau" in German and "femme" in French, and I assume most other languages.

This is because it is a word which is absolutely fundamental to our understanding of the world and our place within it. It is not a "nice to have" word, such as "consequence" or "regal" or "suspicion". It is not a word for something that has been recently invented or discovered, such as "computer" or "antibiotic" or "passport". It is a word which even the most primitive human societies needed to have in their daily vocabulary, which is why in most languages it is a simple word with an etymology which can be traced back for thousands of years through multiple predecessor languages, and with a meaning that has remained utterly stable until the 21st century.

If your "definition" of the word "woman" runs to four pages and doesn't even produce a clear answer at the end of it, your definition is not good and you need to go back to basics.

People living in the 21st century need a word for "adult human female" just as much as the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings and the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians did.

If some of them feel they also need words for new concepts, such as the 72 recently invented "gender identities", that's fine. They're free to invent them.

But the word "woman" is taken, and has been for thousands of years.

@Snowypeaks
I hope you're right.

Yeah thanks for that Cranky. That mental image has now made me cranky :)
I was thinking in far less graphic terms. Putting an extra new hole into a leather belt, making a hole in a wall or something for home improvement ( don't you dare use the word glory! )
Your suggestion was depressingly appropriate and inappropriate at the same time.

It seemed absolutely clear that Alsalem's opinion is that in the treaty, "woman" is a biological category. And the right not to be discriminated against on the grounds of sex is an absolute right, which cannot be limited for any reason.

She also explicitly says that being a woman, not identifying as a woman, is what attracts the protection of CEDAW rights.

And she says that the treaty differentiates between sex and gender - "gender" being the social construct.

This is great for Tickle v Giggle.

Is she saying woman = adult human female? Seems she is but it's almost Starmer-like in its dancing about. So it might not be!

Adult female human is catchier.

(definition)

if you want a large hole in something that's difficult to make holes in you start by making a tiny hole, and then shove something into that hole and wiggle it around as much as you can, and the act of wiggling the thing makes the tiny hole larger and larger.

You could give that thing a name. Might I suggest "dilator"?

Does anyone else read that four pages as saying.
"It says woman depends on biological sex in our treaties, but everyone deserves not to be discriminated against, therefore the definition of woman must include everyone so as not to be discriminatory."

It feels very much like if you want a large hole in something that's difficult to make holes in you start by making a tiny hole, and then shove something into that hole and wiggle it around as much as you can, and the act of wiggling the thing makes the tiny hole larger and larger.