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Original poster

Who does the police work for? A Statement by Southall Black Sisters

218 replies

IwantToRetire · 03/04/2024 18:40

This is from October last year and I thought there was a thread about it, but if there was it has gone. So will post link to the statement from that time as there has been an update today.

On the night of Friday, the 29th September, Selma Taha, Executive Director of SBS, and her friends were verbally and physically assaulted in an extremely violent racist attack on public transport; this included pulling clumps of hair off Selma and her friend and biting Selma’s flesh, leaving a deeply embedded imprint of her teeth which necessitated a tetanus injection and antibiotics.

A Metropolitan Detective Constable was present at the scene but did nothing to de-escalate the verbal racist abuse when the assailant, a white woman, began making monkey sounds, calling Selma and her friends “bitches”, and “slaves,” and subjecting them to other vile racist slurs. Nor did he apprehend the attacker until it turned into extremely violent physical assault.

To make sense of today's statement you do read the original statement in full which is at https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/news/who-does-the-police-work-for-a-statement-by-southall-black-sisters/

Update – Violent Racist Attack on Selma Taha and Friends

On 5 October 2023, I made it known publicly that I and two friends had been the victims of racist abuse and physical violence on the tube, and that a police officer was present, off-duty, who had failed to intervene during the incident to de-escalate the situation so as to protect me and my friends.

In a development that is deeply shocking to the three of us, the CPS has now made the following charging decisions:https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/news/update-violent-racist-attack-on-selma-taha-and-friends/

Who does the police work for? A Statement by Southall Black Sisters - Southall Black Sisters

On the night of Friday, the 29th September, Selma Taha, Executive Director of SBS, and her friends were verbally and physically assaulted in an extremely violent racist attack on public transport; this included pulling clumps of hair off Selma and her...

https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/news/who-does-the-police-work-for-a-statement-by-southall-black-sisters

OP posts:
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Lndnmummy · 12/04/2024 17:11

MCOut · 04/04/2024 10:53

You assume wrongly, it’s in the news reports. White woman started on them after they asked her to move her suitcase after she nearly hit one of the women with it.

Incidentally, the CPS is probably doing exactly what you did. Recently white people have been getting so upset poc speak out against racism that they’ve been excusing all racist behaviour and trying to find some way to make it the poc fault.

The black woman in this scenario was bitten, had her hair pulled out, was called a slave and had monkey noises made at her. There are pictures of her injury all over the Internet. Why are you going to assume that somebody who has been so violent is the more innocent party in the scenario?

Inevitably, all that happened is that they were trying to get the woman off when the policeman initially failed to bestir himself. It will be interesting to see all the responses once that trial is over. Even if they’re vindicated, somehow it will still be their fault.

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Original poster
IwantToRetire · 12/04/2024 17:07

I understand that SBS have been in receipt of funding from the immensely wealthy Triodos Foundation, a charitable subsidiary of Triodos Bank, an extremely controversial Dutch "ethical" bank that funds a variety of controversial organisations including many described as "cults".

I think you need to provide evidence of this, particularly as you use this "understanding" to then launch into a complete derail about cults!!

I presume you have bothered to check their accounts which will be available as they are a charity.

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pickledandpuzzled · 12/04/2024 12:19

Don’t dig them out for me- I no longer have an interest as mine are all grown up.
The school they went to was majority white, but not entirely. I would say it was broadly representative of the community.

The next school they went to was majority black, so they had plenty of variety.

ScepticalConspiracyTheorist · 12/04/2024 12:16

I would be genuinely interested to hear from SBS regarding their thoughts on accepting money from Triodos

ScepticalConspiracyTheorist · 12/04/2024 12:06

pickledandpuzzled · 12/04/2024 11:57

Would it be possible to think that Steiner may have been racist, but the educational philosophy that grew from his work no longer is?

I’ve heard a lot of criticism of Steiner but my DC went for a while and there was only support and acceptance of children there with massive challenges. I won’t list them, because some really are genuinely outing, but they managed some extremely complex situations.

There were weaknesses- safeguarding/health and safety was dire, and some children didn’t make the educational progress they should have. There were weird notes of anxiety around Harry Potter, for example. I’d go with eccentric as a fair descriptor.

Of course that was one school. Others may have been less accepting.

This is a really good question

Personally I think the movement is rotten and deeply concerning, however there may be individual teachers who do not believe in the racist and other extremely dodgy ideas (e.g. re children with Downs)

I have met many adults who claim to have loved their time at Steiner Schools which they say are good for the arts, however Steiner Schools are pockets of anti-vaccine resistance, which harms children and this is reflected in the new age and conspiratorial beliefs of the adults I have met, all of whom are white

I will try to find some links later, sorry no time right now

pickledandpuzzled · 12/04/2024 11:57

Would it be possible to think that Steiner may have been racist, but the educational philosophy that grew from his work no longer is?

I’ve heard a lot of criticism of Steiner but my DC went for a while and there was only support and acceptance of children there with massive challenges. I won’t list them, because some really are genuinely outing, but they managed some extremely complex situations.

There were weaknesses- safeguarding/health and safety was dire, and some children didn’t make the educational progress they should have. There were weird notes of anxiety around Harry Potter, for example. I’d go with eccentric as a fair descriptor.

Of course that was one school. Others may have been less accepting.

ScepticalConspiracyTheorist · 12/04/2024 11:49

sawdustformypony · 12/04/2024 08:22

Is this a Judicial Review against a charging decision of the CPS? Never heard of such a thing. Has this been done before? I wouldn't even consider that the CPS had a judicial role, in any event. Very odd.

If there really is such poor evidence to charge the defendants, then why not fight it at the criminal court. Guess, we'll just have to see.

Expensive too - bags of cash maybe, some of these charities.

I understand that SBS have been in receipt of funding from the immensely wealthy Triodos Foundation, a charitable subsidiary of Triodos Bank, an extremely controversial Dutch "ethical" bank that funds a variety of controversial organisations including many described as "cults".

The Triodos bank has strong links to the Rudolf Steiner movement, an occult movement with a racist philosophy as its foundation, so it really is an extraordinary situation that an apparently anti-racist organisation accepts funds from a controversial donor whose philosophical foundations are entrenched in supernatural ideas about racial hierarchies, with darker skinned people existing on the primitive, lower rungs.

What does it all mean in relation to the incident/s described in this thread?

I have absolutely no idea. Maybe something, maybe nothing, but in a post truth world where we are all invited to accept subjective "truths" as facts, I will wait to see what hard evidence turns up before jumping to conclusions

Links for the curious here

The Bank that likes to say ‘Quack’: Triodos
https://www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/07/triodos-bank-that-likes-to-say-quack.html

  1. Investment assets
Freehold property – at valuation At beginning of the year Additions Revaluation in year At end of the year 2019 2018 ££ 625,000 625,000 31,938 - (56,938) - 600,000 625,000 The property was revalued at 31 March 2019 by a local estate agent based on open market valuation. The property is subject to a legal charge held by Triodos Bank NV in respect of a loan, which stood at £61,324 at 31 March 2019 (2018: £73,353), see note 9. This represents 10% of the value of the property (2018: 12%). https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search?p_p_id=uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet&p_p_lifecycle=2&p_p_state=maximized&p_p_mode=view&p_p_resource_id=%2Faccounts-resource&p_p_cacheability=cacheLevelPage&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_objectiveId=A9995892&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_priv_r_p_mvcRenderCommandName=%2Ffull-print&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_priv_r_p_organisationNumber=3970913

The Wayback Machine pages of the Triodos Bank that boasts of its support of the SBS are now diverted, as are the relevant pages on the SBS website.

It was some years ago when I discovered the links, archived them and took screen shots, however Triodos were also funding controversial Buddhist movements that claimed to be about peace, love, inclusion and happiness but were also described as abusive by many former members (this is how I learned about Triodos initially) so the inclusion of SBS in Triodos's examples of organisations they supported SBS was a shock to me.

I suppose it could be that the SBS didn't know about the underlying racist beliefs of the Rudolph Steiner movement but I would have thought that, as an anti-racist organisation, it would have been their job to know about that kind of thing?

Again, maybe unrelated to the issue on this thread, I really don't know, but I cannot help but feel deeply uneasy about the SBS being in receipt of either donations or loans from Triodos

The Bank that likes to say ‘Quack’: Triodos – The Quackometer Blog

https://www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/07/triodos-bank-that-likes-to-say-quack.html

anyolddinosaur · 12/04/2024 11:07

There is a very short timescale for judicial review, the barrier to success is very high and its expensive. I wouldnt think they have a chance and would be better putting the effort into defending the case.

NCForQuestions · 12/04/2024 10:08

@sawdustformypony I hadn't heard of it either despite 22 years in the CJS!

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/appeals-judicial-review-cps-prosecuting-decisions

I'm await the details of their appeal with great interest - nothing stacks up for me so far.

sawdustformypony · 12/04/2024 08:22

Is this a Judicial Review against a charging decision of the CPS? Never heard of such a thing. Has this been done before? I wouldn't even consider that the CPS had a judicial role, in any event. Very odd.

If there really is such poor evidence to charge the defendants, then why not fight it at the criminal court. Guess, we'll just have to see.

Expensive too - bags of cash maybe, some of these charities.

pickledandpuzzled · 12/04/2024 06:45

HepzibahGreen · 11/04/2024 22:44

This thread is nuts. It’s one long “hmmm” 🤔 and excuses and justifying of utterly appalling racist abuse. Not every post, but most.
I can’t believe the tone of it to be honest.
Why didn’t anyone intervene if there was racist abuse? Have you even been on public transport at all? People don’t intervene anymore! Even police apparently.
Racism on both sides?! Now, let me think, why does that sound familiar..?
And all the suspicion that a known activist might encounter abusive behaviour and ( I think?) the implication that it’s all to make some kind of point? I can’t see the attitudes on this thread as anything other than deep seated racism towards black women and I’m really disgusted that its is on the feminist board.

I’ve reread my post and can see why it annoyed you. My question about intervention wasn’t about questioning if it happened- not at all. And I realise bystander effect is a thing. It was more a rhetorical question about how this situation should have played out differently so the women didn’t feel they needed to respond physically to disgusting abuse.

It’s like the situation in school where the child who hits out at her bullies gets punished. We can’t allow people to lash out at their tormentors, but how else are we going to stop the torment?

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 12/04/2024 00:52

Nobody on this thread has made any comment about not believing the 3 women were victims of racist abuse and actual violence.

As the person who started the thread I was asking if it is usual for a charity to issue a statement about an incident outside of work hours.

Not that I thought they shouldn't but given charity rules etc., seemed unusual.

Genuinely if there is a post that specifically says the women concerned were lying about being attacked can you say which one and I am happy to ask MNHQ to delete it.

Most have tried not to jump to any conclusions because it is an ongoing court case, and from the newspaper report today clear that the CPS is not being straightfoward.

I understand from those at the demo earlier today the main point, which is effectively the slogan for the case, is "Self defence is No offence"

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HepzibahGreen · 11/04/2024 22:44

This thread is nuts. It’s one long “hmmm” 🤔 and excuses and justifying of utterly appalling racist abuse. Not every post, but most.
I can’t believe the tone of it to be honest.
Why didn’t anyone intervene if there was racist abuse? Have you even been on public transport at all? People don’t intervene anymore! Even police apparently.
Racism on both sides?! Now, let me think, why does that sound familiar..?
And all the suspicion that a known activist might encounter abusive behaviour and ( I think?) the implication that it’s all to make some kind of point? I can’t see the attitudes on this thread as anything other than deep seated racism towards black women and I’m really disgusted that its is on the feminist board.

pickledandpuzzled · 11/04/2024 18:16

Surely the CPS wouldn’t be stupid enough to bring a case against well connected women working in social justice, unless they have pretty damning evidence?

I can understand the women feeling the abuse directed at them provoked their response, but a physical fight three on one which seems to have extended to the off duty policeman who intervened can’t be proportionate or indeed pass unchallenged.

If it’s ok for us to physically assault people who are offensive, we’re in big trouble.

I want to hear what other witnesses say. Why didn’t anyone intervene about the racist abuse, so the women didn’t feel the need to respond like that?

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/04/2024 18:13

So yes your take on it is right IMO

More and more there doesn't seem to be straight forward legal process but learning how to play the game.

ie the woman who started the incident agreed to accept the charge against her and so has charges dropped because she made "an apology". Not sure if it means she has a record.

And it seems as likely she was offered this to save police time and money rather than justice.

So it could be that if the 3 women who haven't accepted the charges against them are now facing the process is the punishment route, as much as whether what they are alleged to have done was any worse that the initiator.

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littleducks · 11/04/2024 18:12

Still not getting it! I did read the article but can't quite understand the significance-as in who the comments were addressed to and was seen at being at fault.

Hopefully there will be more details at later court date and I'll get a better understanding

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/04/2024 18:07

littleducks · 11/04/2024 17:49

I'm confused by lots in this case.

Are the magistrates chair comments a (gentle?) chastisement of both sides, that defence should have lodged judicial review already; if they intend to and made plea today and that on turn CPS shouldn't be upgrading charged at last moment?

Or have I totally misunderstood?

Its in the article.

CPS were contacted re charges and presumably as they often seem to do didn't inform anyone until the court hearing (ironically leading to a more serious charge).

And I think whether or not there can be Judicial Review wont be known for a while, but presumably by the postponed court date.

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littleducks · 11/04/2024 17:49

I'm confused by lots in this case.

Are the magistrates chair comments a (gentle?) chastisement of both sides, that defence should have lodged judicial review already; if they intend to and made plea today and that on turn CPS shouldn't be upgrading charged at last moment?

Or have I totally misunderstood?

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Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/04/2024 17:32

All three are accused of assault by beating in the central London Underground station on September 29 last year.

Riggon and Thomas were originally also charged with harassment under the Public Order Act.

But during Thursday’s hearing, Thomas’s charge was raised to the more serious offence of racially aggravated harassment contrary to the same Act, which could be tried at a crown court.

The case was adjourned until April 26 at the same court because of the change to the charge and potential judicial review.

Postponing the hearing Neil Taylor, chair of the magistrates’ bench, said “there is an expectation” that magistrates take pleas in the first occasion and that “justice delayed is justice denied”.

He said: “The expectation is (by April 26) there will be clarity in respect of whether a judicial review application has been lodged or not, we also expect on that occasion that defendants could be fully prepared on the changes in charge.”

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2024/04/11/three-women-face-court-charged-with-assault-at-kings-cross-underground-station/

The article is much longer - I just tried to pick out the facts about the legal process. Interestingly as yet local London papers haven't rellly covered this. As far as I can make out the Express and Star if based in Wolverhampton.

Three women face court charged with assault at King’s Cross Underground station

Selma Taha, executive director of Southall Black Sisters, Divina Riggon and Danae Thomas appeared at Highbury Corner Magistrates’ Court.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2024/04/11/three-women-face-court-charged-with-assault-at-kings-cross-underground-station

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 05/04/2024 15:50

IkaBaar · 05/04/2024 12:08

My df got champagne for helping out on a flight. Complete with real glass flutes which they still have.

NOT FAIR!

IkaBaar · 05/04/2024 12:08

My df got champagne for helping out on a flight. Complete with real glass flutes which they still have.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 05/04/2024 10:22

anyolddinosaur · 05/04/2024 09:50

A doctor acquaintance said they immediately have an alcoholic drink when they board a plane so they cannot respond to requests for help. You would think airlines would be grateful and reward those who do help but apparently if they do it may be a cup of tea. If they gave them a discount on their next flight flight or free lounge entry or an upgrade then maybe they'd get more help.

Yup - I helped a patient who had collapsed on a flight (she was eventually fine) and didn't even get a free drink. And this was on an expensive long-haul airline, not Ryanair!

anyolddinosaur · 05/04/2024 09:50

A doctor acquaintance said they immediately have an alcoholic drink when they board a plane so they cannot respond to requests for help. You would think airlines would be grateful and reward those who do help but apparently if they do it may be a cup of tea. If they gave them a discount on their next flight flight or free lounge entry or an upgrade then maybe they'd get more help.

Woman2023 · 05/04/2024 08:49

For them to be charging the 3 black girls and letting the 1 white girl off

Are all the people involved in this under 18? If not, the word you are looking for is women.