Anyone free for a Women's Equality Party hustings in Basingstoke (Hampshire)

That report predates the census statistics too, which show males who identify as trans (transwomen) are several times more likely to be sex offenders than other males.

it doesn’t affect equal pay

Alice Sullivan is excellent on this on Twitter today:

https://twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1501475643099422724

Do you have evidence of this? As far as I remember, trans people in the UK are far less likely to be victims of murder than the general population (From https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk).

There is also a significantly higher proportion of trans-identifying males in prison who are sex offenders than the general male population (from https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/). Presumably some of them would have been placed in female prisons as well.

You personally not caring about the issue does not mean it’s not a very real one for many women. Single sex spaces are simply not yours to give away.

it doesn’t affect equal pay

Let’s just think about this. Male heavy company (IT) with only 5% women employees, and high number of men who identify as trans (10%). Men paid more than women. Women go to court for equal pay. Company says ‘you are paid the same’ because men who identify as trans are recorded as women distorting the statistics. Women lose equal pay claim.

I know lots of men who aren't violent but they still shouldn't go into the women's changing room.

Women are not human shields. If there is a risk of violence in the male facilities (I've never seen any evidence that there is) then the solution is a third space.

Given the phrasing and lack of engagement with any substantive points, I'm not sure about the naivety.

In your view, LoveSandbanks, what is the difference between a man and a transwoman, and how does that difference affect women?

Well bless yours too.

I wish I had the luxury of being so naive.

Well bless your heart. Not what I said but clearly you’re gonna do you.

Their safety and protection isn't irrelevant, but it shouldn't occur by risking anyone else's safety and protection.

Most people won't ever be violent to another person. Most cars won't ever be involved in a crash. Most people go up and down stairs without much thought. It doesn't mean we don't take any measures to protect against personal violence, nor put in places rules and engineering and test driving standards to reduce the chance of crashes, nor refuse to put up bannisters/guard rails on stairways, because most people manage without. We do try to put things in place that reduce the risks for all people, not just some of them, and we tend not to take measures that will increase risks for some while only making it safer for a few.

How is equality for women eroded by including men?

Well, have a think about it.

It's not just about safety. Most women don't want to share female spaces with any men at all, however lovely. It's a question of privacy, dignity and feeling safe and comfortable.

😃

You can’t consent on behalf of other women.

My dad’s lovely too but I don’t think you should have to compete against him at sports, even though he’s slower now due to the medication he takes.

You understand that you are not everyone, yes?

The plural of anecdote is not data. Go and look up actual crime stats and offending rates and stop wasting everyone's time with the beee kiiiind guilt-trip crap. It's been done hundreds of times and it doesn't work any more.

Did you actually type that out loud?

I personally know a number of trans individuals and not one of them has been violent towards another person. They are far more likely to experience violence than to commit it but their protection and safety is utterly irrelevant.

Forcing women to share private spaces with transwomen very much increases the risk of violence against women. I'm sure that someone can link a compilation thread of incidents which have happened, if you'd like to (ahem) educate yourself.

Wow.

@NimbleScroller I created this thread a couple of years ago which collates all the MN webchats at the time the WEP was founded, and discussion about Jon Skeet etc. Someone on Twitter said he's something to do with "UN Women" as well - does anyone know anything about that or can verify?

The Big Lie - how the WEP was always about gender rather than sex www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4058470-the-big-lie-how-the-wep-was-always-about-gender-rather-than-sex

Feminism: the only equal rights movement in history which is expected to prioritise the oppressors in their campaigning.

If you can't grasp that humans don't change sex, that women are oppressed on the basis of sex, and that they're entitled to say so, start with the Break It Down For Me thread on this board.

If you're (as is usually the case) strategically refusing to grasp it - the faux-naif thing doesn't work here.

'it doesn’t affect equal pay, ending violence against women, equal parental rights etc'

How do you know it doesn't? A transwoman won't be discriminated against in the same way as they won't be taking maternity leave. They have been socialised as a male. And a transwoman at the top of the heap (cough Pip cough) can be held up as an example of equality. No more effort required.

Ending vawg. Have you seen the endless examples? At the extreme end when transwomen are imprisoned with women?

Equal parental rights. See transwidows and surrogacy.

Plus what others have said.

I don't disagree that transpeople can be extremely vulnerable. But they need support as transpeople. Not as something they are not.

Because women are not men. In a million different ways. Women have never been men. The more we present the superficial trappings of social gender norms as sex based the worse it will be for women in the long run.

I used to be a member of WEP. In fact, I was a regional Chair and I attended their conference about 4 years ago.
I gave up my membership shortly after Sophie Walker resigned. At the time they said she 'moved on' and 'wanted to spend more time with her family', but the self ID issue was already raising it's head and the party's stance on inclusion of and support for Transwomen was something I just couldn't get on board with.
It's very sad - I felt they could have been a great force for good if they'd really been keen to promote the interests of women