Woman's hour 2nd April 2024 JKR's 'hate' thread

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

Why did the Scottish parliament not simply make this new law apply to all the protected characteristics under the Equality Act, rather than coming up with a new, reduced list?

They were advised against including "sex" by the Independent Review, which stated that it would add complexity to the point it would likely make crimes with other aggravating factors impossible to prosecute successfully, and that it required specific legislation of it's own. Presumably this is what compelled the Misogyny Law Consultation.

https://www.gov.scot/news/misogyny-law-consultation/

If you define a woman as anyone who says they are one, how do you keep "bad actors" out of women's spaces, whilst letting nice trans women into them?

Maybe you don't want to though? You're sort of assuming that the beardy bros care about women at all. As the marvellous Glosswitch kind of said, you know that they know that transwomen are men - otherwise they wouldn't care about them at all.

I've literally posted evidence that it has, over many years. It fell last year, but that's still the second highest on record.

😂 True

This is a poor analogy.

To be a Scout leader you need a DBS check. Gay men aren't allowed to just become Scout leaders without undergoing any vetting, and neither is anyone else.

But you don't need to undergo any vetting to use women's toilets, you just need to be a woman.

If you define a woman as a female person, you know who is allowed in women's toilets and who shouldn't be there because we can see with our own eyes what sex people are.

If you define a woman as anyone who says they are one, how do you keep "bad actors" out of women's spaces, whilst letting nice trans women into them?

Ultimately, Old Joker is just here to get some attention from women. Thankfully he also gives an opportunity to reach some curious people who are just reading along by asking the same basic question repeatedly and ignoring the answer.

And in the case of not wanting men who reckon they'd like to be women into women's safe spaces is like racism argument, they have it the wrong way around. The men are really analogous to the white people - the ones doing the oppression and trying to prevent the oppressed people (women) from having any space away from them.

She means men, including men who identify as women. Women's spaces are for females. Third spaces are the obvious solution.

You mean aside from this? -

https://www.gov.scot/publications/independent-review-hate-crime-legislation-scotland-final-report/

Gay men should have to have the same DBS checks as any other men before being allowed to work with children.

Similarly, all men should be barred from using women's single sex spaces, regardless of any special identity they claim to have.

All we're saying is that all men should be treated equally. (Man = adult male human.)

Gay men should be treated the same as all other men.
Men who identify as so-called 'transwomen' should be treated the same as all other men.

It's really not difficult to understand.

The issue is that TW are men and thus share in the propensity for male patterns of behaviour. We have single sex spaces in order to protect women and girls from some well established sex based differences; those which tend to pose an unacceptable compromise or threat, or certainly a level of discomfort to women and girls in female only spaces.

The public needs to be aware that males ( even those that identify as women) retain male pattern behaviour; including offending and sexualised behaviour - and that just because someone' identifies as a woman' it does not mean they cease to be male. Even if someone has a GRC or has had full surgical removal of the male sex organs this is still the case.

Women (should) have that right too. The right to say "that bloke in the pool shouldn't be swimming against women, etc etc

except there are loads of circumstances where we (used to) do exactly that.

Why do we have female-only anything? Because, while not all men are rapists, all rapists are men. While not all men are sexual offenders, nearly all sexual offenders are men. While not all men are violent criminals, nearly all violent criminals are men etc etc etc. Everyone knows this. Every study since ever backs this up. And because there is no way of knowing which men are going to turn out to be violent and / or sexual predators we keep all of them out of certain spaces which are reserved only for women.

I like it when @DadJoke comments because it is hard at times to imagine what on earth the TRAs and bearded bros who are so keen for women to give up their rights for are thinking. It's clear there is very low social and emotional intelligence to the arguments: which shows why these views are so much more likely to be held by privileged men who never feel the fear and vulnerability women and girls do.
Reading the PPs clear rational countering really helps me form concise and practised points to use to when discussing these matters with teenagers and young people.
So thanks all

I suspect that JKR was actually hoping to be arrested and is quite disappointed about this.

Maybe. But either way it's a win for her - or rather, us. Police Scotland have confirmed that misgendering isn't a hate crime. So anyone who follows JKR's lead is safe.

Anybody telling you that hate crimes against transgender people are increasing in Scotland is talking pure pish -

'The hate crime statistics show that the number of charges with a transgender aggravation in Scotland fell to 55 in 2022-23 from 86 in the previous year. This is against a background of 3145 crimes with race as aggravation, 723 disability and 1884 sexual identity.'

www.copfs.gov.uk/publications/hate-crime-in-scotland-2022-23/html/

If JKR isn't arrested, ordinary women can't be arrested for saying the same thing. What a legend she is.

Scout leaders get police checks before getting access to children. Bloke in a frock with an erection can just walk into women's loos. Next to little girls.

Shame the SNP and co didn't take legal advice before legislating

No way,. I bet she took legal advice before posting.

Do you think we should ban all gay men from being scout leaders because of bad actors? You don't look at the protected characteristic, you look at the individual.

I suspect that JKR was actually hoping to be arrested and is quite disappointed about this.

The cops aren't going after her anyway. Just been confirmed that calling the people listed, men, isn't a criminal offence:

JK Rowling hate crime tweets not criminal - police
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68712471

"The Harry Potter author, who lives in Edinburgh, described several transgender women as men, including convicted prisoners, trans activists and other public figures."

(Not sure the Beeb intended this to read like convicted prisoners are "public figures" - or to imply there are non-convicted prisoners? - but there you go)

Here's a question.

Scotland is part of the UK.

The Equality Act applies across the whole of the UK.

The Equality Act contains nine protected characteristics, including both sex and gender reassignment.

Why did the Scottish parliament not simply make this new law apply to all the protected characteristics under the Equality Act, rather than coming up with a new, reduced list?

Thanks to @ArabellaScott for the welcome ’men’ gifs/clips interlude. I particularly enjoyed the Irish dancing brothers.

Aha....