Disciplinary action for ONS female employees if they object to trans colleagues using their lavatories

Oh dear. With every post you type you show your utter contempt for women ( the actual ones of the adult human female variety). Is it intentional?

Women aren't objecting to "trans people" they are objecting to men invading their privacy and dignity.

Please do just ignore posters coming here and talking out of their arse to spread misinformation because they hate women. This is a clear example of the type of thing the Forstater ruling was intended to address. The right not to believe men can become women on their say so is a protected belief. Single sex toilets in the workplace are not just subject to the Equality Act, either. Any harassment or discrimination by an organisation or its employees against women at work simply for requesting female only spaces for their privacy and dignity is potentially illegal under the EA.

This is clearly not legitimate. They are not providing a single sex space, and in that case where facilities are mixed sex the facilities need to be enclosed in single rooms. See Health and Safety at Work Act.

“ONS refuses to respect the safety and dignity of its female employees” is the story though @DadJoke

Not that you’d notice. Or care.

What statutory guidance instructs employers to subject female employees to disciplinary procedures if they object to a male colleague watching them get undressed in the female changing room?

Could you provide a link to it?

“ONS follows statutory guidance and set out how to deal with employees who won’t accept that after it’s been communicated to them” is not really a story.

There'll be sex offenders in prisons who are vulnerable, too.

There will be men who are in prison for non violent crime who could be a danger to others.

Thats why Nicola Sturgeon reframing isla bryson being placed in the male estate as because hes a rapist, rather than because hes male, was a lie. And ultimately unachievable.

There's an idea that prisons should be separated by violence of crime rather than sex. But even ignoring the obvious - women would still only make up 5% of the prison population therefore would be outnumbered in any non sex based prison category, there isn't a formula to determine the level of risk someone poses. The only thing prisons can do is estimate the risk to a given prisioner, and mitigate for that while in the correct sex prison.

Apologies I meant to quote @Emotionalsupportviper

I suspect that there have been many effeminate men, and young men, and vulnerable men who have been similarly horribly abused in men's jails, despite not having a "gender identity".

Exactly. And the reason that this happened to this MTF trans person at the time was probably that horribly, it wasn't all that unusual in men's prisons for young men to experience that type of abuse, as you say,

I suspect that there have been many effeminate men, and young men, and vulnerable men who have been similarly horribly abused in men's jails, despite not having a "gender identity".

Prisons are, by their very nature, violent places - and the male estate especially so.

Terrible as these assaults are, it doesn't mean that women should be subjected to sexual violence in order to protect men.

They need to address male violence, not put women at risk.

Is it absolutely unthinkable that the ONS might have said, to the male employees, "This colleague is transitioning. Colleague will continue to use the sexed facilities, any objections to sharing facilities with employees going through transition, the situation should be dealt with through communication, discussion and education”.
Etc.

Men need to broaden the bandwidth of being male, to adapt a phrase. One of the ways to do this is to educate other men into accepting TW in their spaces without any of the consequences that TW put forward as the driver for needing to use women's spaces.

TW might even ask their male allies to be their shield against other men if they are apprehensive about the risk of visiting the work facilities.

This would have a far greater impact on acceptance than coercive control of women. If what you're interested in is social acceptance rather than the coercive control of women on every level from individual to social, legal, civic etc.

Officially National shits!

Interestingly I was chatting to a gay friend recently, who said he had no idea where the whole TQ stuff came from, and he loathed the word queer because of how it was used when he was a teenager.

So not in his name either, by the sound of it.

As for ONS, all I can say is, FFS. I am beyond reasoned comment.

And this is exactly the problem with the new consultation for public toilets talking about making them fully enclosed even for separate sex toilets. This has come, I think, as a direct result of men going into women’s toilets due to this ideology. And that phonecameras get stuck under cubicle doors.

What could be more vulnerable than being in an inaccessible enclosed space having a medical emergency? It means that medically vulnerable people with certain conditions such as epileptics and diabetics are less safe but any of us could feel ill and head for the loo and have a stroke/heart attack/haemorrhage/collapse. And there’s also the increase risk of assault in someone gets into that space with you. And also not being able to be accessed in a building evacuation. And then hygiene (cleaning and ventilation difficulties).

When I read the government toilet consultation and it said the single sex blocks fully enclosed is good for disabled people as they could have carers in I realised it was an able bodied man who had written it. As schools have found out, mixed sex fully enclosed toilets mean 2 different sexed pupils go inside but not for ‘personal care’. The system is broken if these enclosed toilets are thought to be best design for safety.

PP have pointed out that the HSE Workplace Regulations 1992 mandate separate toilet provision for men and women. That hasn't changed, but the interpretation of 'men' and 'women' has.

Stonewall advice is:

This has always happened and nobody minds.

Trans-exclusive toilets are discriminatory (they are not completely wrong, if no alternative is provided)

Trans exclusion would have to serve a legitimate and proportionate aim and that test has not been passed.

My dream court case:

Yes, we do mind.

You should stop disadvantaging trans people by not giving them their own space.

Safety, dignity and fairness for women, and for both men and women who for religious reasons need sex segregation for private functions, is a LAPA which justifies slightly inconveniencing trans people.

I didn't know Tony Blair had transitioned!

Gosh! Aren't you quite the charmer.

Nicely done!

That is absolutely horrendous. Male sexual violence in jail, massive failure to protect a vulnerable prisoner from other men. Of course the first duty of care of prison authorities is to protect from violence and manage the risk of that. Which is why no men should be in women's prisons, ever.

please provide evidence of this transwoman who was raped more than 200 times in men's jail.

I know what this person is referring to and it's an Australian case in about 1990. So it's horrible, but they have to go out of the country and 35 odd years ago to find an example.

Given that in reality the number of trans women in the population, with or with a GRC is a small percentage, there seems to be a disproportionate number of TW in quite senior positions within organisastions and institutions that influence how society is run.

Which is worse? That they have so easily got these jobs or that it was / is all part of a plan by the not so hidden network of friendships that every now and agains becomes less hidden than usual.

All this time was have the MSM focusing on the tired old ritual of left versus right, when the actual narrative was men seeking news ways to dominate and under cut women.

And telling them they are not allowed to get changed away from men. Or be partially undressed in the presence of men.

Which could lead to people making assumptions about the sort of person they are, their motivations.

I expect nobody is brave enough to speak up, not when you face a disciplinary for doing so

Sue Ferns, of the Prospect union, said: "This case reveals a shocking lack of diversity among economists at ONS and what seems like the deliberate overlooking of female candidates in favour of men."

this paragraph from the bbc stands out a mile

it was clear years ago that there was company capture, a dominant ideology.

Prior to the last census I attended a focus group run by the ONS discussing Trans inclusion in the census. It was clear they were completely captured right from the start. They used Cis and gave a very garbled explanation of it. Lots of agreement with the group when see was described as old fashioned. Insisting that I had a gender identity.

I gave feedback raising these concerns. A few emails were sent back and forth and then they just stopped replying. I chased them and never received a response.

This has been going on years. The focus group I attended was a box ticking exercise