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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men who harass women are 'low status' males

63 replies

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 22:02

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33613781

I found this fascinating.

'Two researchers analysed how men treated women while playing 163 games of Halo 3.
Men who performed poorly in the games responded by being hostile to female players.

The male winners were mostly pleasant to other players, while the losing men made unsavoury comments to female players.
"Low-status males that have the most to lose due to a hierarchical reconfiguration are responding to the threat female competitors pose," the researchers, from the University of New South Wales and the Miami University in Ohio, write. "High-status males with the least to fear were more positive."

In Halo 3, players are anonymous and only interact with each other by voice a few times during the game. Most Halo players are men.
When performing poorly, players increased negative statements toward women and submissive statements toward the men who were winning.
"As men often rely on aggression to maintain their dominant social status, the increase in hostility towards a woman by lower-status males may be an attempt to disregard a female's performance," the researchers write.'

The key thing that I took from this was the feelings of low-status males are more invested in their status compared to other males than in their relationship to women.

It's something I think interesting to consider when thinking about MVAWG in general - males lacking a father figure is one of the risk factors for abusive men.

When men are abusive to women, are they actually acting out their feelings towards other men? This would explain why so many narcissists see women as ciphers, not actual humans, too.

Men who performed poorly in the games were more likely to bully female players

Video game study finds losers more likely to harass women

A new study finds that men who harass women online are actual losers - at least when it comes to video games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33613781

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soupfiend · 29/03/2024 07:46

I dont think this is particularly surprising in terms of the harrassment and hostility

However working with children, what I would say about the trans thing, is that it is largely girls wanting to be/saying they are boys rather than the other way around. And every single one of them (havent met any that dont fit this demographic) have either ASD/trauma/history of SA or a mixture of those 3.

FinallyASunnyDay · 29/03/2024 07:40

This reminded me of ape behaviour- low status males on the fringes. I went looking fir more info on this and found this (not academic) from the guardian in 2010:

"These sorts of sexually aggressive male behaviours are more often exhibited by low-status males. High-status males who have repeatedly shown kindness, and are high status due to their mix of good genes for intelligence and physical stamina, are more likely to have females soliciting them for sex rather than their having to harass or rape in order to mate."

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/apr/19/unrequited-love-coping-rejection

I don't know how this translates to transgenderism, but it could just be an attempt to be accepted back into the group - a low status male can't do it as a male but by masquerading as a female, they have a special status and no longer inhabit the sme ostracised, low status niche?

Unrequited love – coping with rejection | Ask Carole, Evolutionary Agony Aunt

Carole Jahme shines the cold light of evolutionary psychology on readers' problems. This week: rejected advances

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/apr/19/unrequited-love-coping-rejection

OneMorePlant · 28/03/2024 23:28

As a long term woman gamer none of this is surprising. Pathetic mediocre men don't like it when women out perform them in any area.

It's extra bad in gaming because those men fail at everything else in life and convinced themselves they are at least good at gaming. Now imagine how upset they get when a woman comes along and kicks their arses.

For those who never game, in FPS games you get something like this

What Girl Gamers REALLY Have To Deal With | OMG a Girl Series [1]

Episode 1 of OMG A Girl. The episode that started it all!Watch the full series here:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEDsO12Ccv9ES1Qlnwu_Gi72udJyhVXyZ▼...

https://youtu.be/jL0aVqVslSE?si=Xs-rw6kjlQd96vO0

songaboutjam · 28/03/2024 23:07

Thus, membership in the “male” category is more fragile than in the “female” category.

This, I think, is the reason why some TW and TRA types attempt to wield insults like "TW are more woman than you'll ever be" and "I'm not scared of trans because unlike you TERFs, I'm secure in my femininity" (I have seen examples of both of these being used).

Of course, they don't work as insults because they assume the male status experience is universal.

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 22:51

I think it can be complex, and sometimes I'm afraid there are other motivations.

But the 'status' issue is an interesting one; perhaps not really something women are as invested in and maybe that's why it hadn't occurred to me before.

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PurpleBugz · 28/03/2024 22:44

I wonder what the behaviour of high status males who then become low status is like. Do they change? Are they only ok to women when their ego is appropriately served by their high status?

And then a side note. If a man sees women as less than men and switches to the female category is this a way of satisfying that need for high status? The obvious example of this is in sports but it's also present in how some TW are very vocal about being better women/more desirable/more attractive/etc

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 22:35

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08912432231180152

I can't access this, unfortunately, but it looks interesting.

'We find that people are more likely to reclassify boys exhibiting feminine behavior into an alternative identity category (transgender) than girls exhibiting analogous masculine behavior. Thus, membership in the “male” category is more fragile than in the “female” category. These findings suggest that gender nonconformity is itself a gendered process, and that the durability of membership in a social category depends on the status of that social identity. This study provides the first causal evidence of the effect of gender nonconformity on perceptions of both transgender and homosexual identity.'

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ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 22:33

Thanks, Noicant.

'This article argues that street harassment is symptomatic of high unemployment rates and of a consequentially weakening pa-triarchal system. It identifies the everyday spectacle of male-to-fe-male street harassment as indicative of the frustration and difficul-ties in adhering to cultural ideals in a time of immense structural transformations. These transformations have impaired Egyptian males' ability to fulfil their traditional role as economic providers, something which has resulted in their lack of achievement and de-masculinization.'

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Noicant · 28/03/2024 22:30

I saw something similar about street harassment a while ago. Regardless of education level.

PerkingFaintly · 28/03/2024 22:26

Gosh, I hadn't even noticed that date. But as you say, likely to remain very relevant.

Your idea that they are treating women as cyphers to act out their feelings towards other men is interesting.

My own feeling is that they are attempting to establish a position for themselves in the hierarchy that is not at the bottom – and are using social aggression against women to try to position the women below themselves.

Of course these explanations are not mutually exclusive!

ArabellaScott · 28/03/2024 22:07

It's very old, I should have added! 2015.

But the underlying point seems likely to remain relevant.

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PerkingFaintly · 28/03/2024 22:05

Interesting article. Thanks for posting that, @ArabellaScott

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