St. John's Ambulance and pronouns.

we are firmly committed to meeting the requirements under the Equity ACT 2010.

They could start by learning the the name of the Act !

None of the above. There is no legal requirement for them to consider RAs for vols.

It's funny how you just don't know what people's real views on this are!

I saw the word TERF used on a note at work (an informal note but still, officially, a work communication) and said quietly to the manager that I thought it was inappropriate and warned them possibly illegal (Thanks, Maya) They totally agreed but commented cryptically that it was lucky it was me who spotted it and not "someone else" or there's have been hell to pay. Which makes me think there's someone much more GC in the building somewhere but I have no idea who!

💯- in my 55 years on this planet I’ve never had to introduce myself as she/her or announce that I’m a woman. Every bloody clue is there in front of peoples eyes and ears.

I’ve interviewed 100’s maybe 1000’s of job candidates over my career and I’ve not once asked someone’s pronouns. I use their name like most normal people always have before this crap started

We’re not allowed to ask someone’s age, sexuality, political leanings or religion at a job interview- why is asking pronouns acceptable then?

If you force people to state pronouns then this doesn't work anymore cos you don't know who is "on your side" and who's just doing it because they feel they have to.

This is a good point. I hadn't thought of this.

They could let a Trojan horse full of rabid TERFS into their organisation . . .

Don’t be obtuse. You know as well as anyone this is nothing more than having bought into an ideology and expecting staff to go along with it. It’s very ill advised

This is the weird thing, it's totally counter-productive.

I've seen trans people on Twitter and elsewhere saying that if people state their own pronouns in profiles etc it tells them "I'm on your side". Which I suppose does make sense in a way.

If you force people to state pronouns then this doesn't work anymore cos you don't know who is "on your side" and who's just doing it because they feel they have to.

This is all about forcing compliance, not the welfare of trans people.

Oooh this is interesting our H&S manager (who i suspect is GC) very recently announced we were no longer using SJA for our FA and MHFA training instead using a small local company, I assumed it was cost but maybe its because of this?? I do hope so we spent about £5k a year with SJA!

You're right, volunteers are not explicitly covered by employment law.

However, I know it gets tricky depending on the registration of an organisation etc and the perception of service delivery when the EqA 2010 is considered.

The Equality Act 2010 says changes or adjustments should be made to ensure you can access the following things if you’re disabled:

• education
• employment - ask your employer for adjustments
• housing - ask for adjustments in your home
• goods and services like shops, banks, cinemas, hospitals, council offices, leisure centres
• associations and private clubs like the Scouts and Guides, private golf clubs and working men clubs

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/check-what-type-of-discrimination-youve-experienced/duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-people/

I've no idea into which bucket SJA falls. And, yet again, can I say it's ridiculous that so many organisations don't perceive any need to be accessible, even when some 'reasonable accommodations' would be fairly trivial.

The irony of saying "it helps to create an inclusive environment" when it does the exact opposite.

Volunteers aren’t covered by employment law.

Exactly. If someone refers to me as “snotrag” that’s their choice, and says something about them, not necessarily about me.

No, other people can refer to me as they see me. It’s not up to me to tell other people how to see me.

I work for a very large charity that primarily supports elderly people. When taking someone's details, I'm supposed to ask about their gender, sexuality, and whether they have their gender matches their sex at birth. You can probably imagine how well that goes down with people 80+ years of age.

I heard a recent proposal to add pronouns to the initial assessment questions. The reasoning was "Trans people's safety is more important than other people's feelings."

I don't even know where to start unpicking that.

I doubt this is going to survive for very long.

Apart from the questionable legality I don't think even Stonewall officially endorses harassing people to state pronouns when they've said they don't feel comfortable doing so or prefer not to.

‘Everyone is referred to in the third person.’

Including the third person singular? Probably not…..

Whoever suggested this upthread: it is perfect.

I/Me/Mine

I’m guessing you don’t need me to tell you their policy on youth camps and who sleeps where.

I find it absolutely remarkable that public bodies have fallen into this absurd youth cult where we are all supposed to spend time discovering what our 'gender identity' is, as this is so terribly important. When really, for nearly everyone, its not important at all.

When actually, for young people, finding out what your aptitudes and skills are is much more important, because then you can find a job that will suit you and you can do well in. Or spending time finding out what brings you joy and meaning, so that you can build that into your life and have a happy, fulfilling life. Or spending time learning how to get along with other people, so that you have good social connections and are happy and supported in life. Or learning how to have appropriate boundaries.

These things will materially affect the quality of your life for all of your life.

I left SJA (it’s St John, not St John’s) last year after 5 years working closely with the HR team. This was one of the reasons. I was sick and tired of battling the pro-trans obsession. Their policy states that if someone objects to sharing toilets or changing rooms with someone that is trans they will be “educated” and if they still refuse they’ll face disciplinary proceedings for harassment. I tried everything I could but it fell on deaf ears. There is a hierarchy of protected characteristics there.

Nobody in senior positions/board is trans but there are influential people with trans friends and family members.

I’ve heard comments from senior leaders about not wanting the sort of people that would voice concerns about trans rights (over those of women or due to religious belief) in the organisation.

There are only a couple of thousand staff but 30,000 volunteers and I think what James has posted is from the volunteer recruitment site.

I recently filled out a form for my Council and one of the choices was "I'm not sure."

Edit- for "gender," not pronouns specifically.

I think the issue for some of us is that we don't think that we should choose how other people speak about us. In all other aspects of speech and text, the responsibility for choosing words lies with the speaker or writer. Not with the subject of the words. Personally I can't get my head around why this would be different. I choose the words when I'm speaking, other people choose the words when they are speaking, even if it is about me or even to me.

No I can't because either pronouns are sex based, in which case TW are he, or they are identity based, in which case I don't have any because I am an Individual and don't feel aligned with any gender identity. If I put she/her it's a misrepresentation of my identity.

Surely a possible answer is

"I haven't decided yet"