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Original poster

Does anyone else not care if a 'hate incident' is recorded against them?

210 replies

WallaceinAnderland · 25/03/2024 14:05

For some people it will mean absolutely nothing. Especially older people with no intention of applying for a job.

What does is really matter? They don't tell you so it's not going to worry you. There's no crime so you haven't broken the law. There's no fine, prosecution or imprisonment.

It's a non crime.

Personally I don't mind if it's recorded somewhere that I did not commit a crime.

Obviously people in work who need a clear DBS will be frightened into submission by this law but there must also be lots of us who aren't?

OP posts:
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ResisterRex · 30/03/2024 10:56

That's interesting Arabella. It's certainly a real weak spot for him for some reason. But his analysis of the legal points is useful regardless.

ArabellaScott · 30/03/2024 10:33

I seem to recall Murray met/knew a transwoman whole he was in prison and had immense sympathy for said person.

Curiously didn't seem capable of finding empathy for female prisoners.

DuesToTheDirt · 30/03/2024 10:14

I have a lot of respect for Craig Murray, but "I understand better now the real risk of sexual offenders posing as trans women." is bizarre. Surely it was obvious from the beginning to anyone who is not hard-of-thinking?

ResisterRex · 30/03/2024 09:32

ArabellaScott · 30/03/2024 09:26

Murray is frequently hampered by his total failure to perceive misogyny, I suspect due to deep seated sexism. But he does have insight of relevant legal issues.

I agree with this.

ArabellaScott · 30/03/2024 09:26

Murray is frequently hampered by his total failure to perceive misogyny, I suspect due to deep seated sexism. But he does have insight of relevant legal issues.

ResisterRex · 30/03/2024 09:20

ArabellaScott · 30/03/2024 09:11

Craig Murray explains this here, see the 'continuous publication' bit:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/03/scotlands-hate-speech-act-and-abuse-of-process/

That is a good piece and Craig so nearly gets it. He's always worth a read but he isn't quite as clear of thought as I think he would like to believe IYSWIM. He gets the madness of the hate crime bill but he doesn't get other forms of coercion.

x.com/craigmurrayorg/status/1773354297633198308?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Chersfrozenface · 30/03/2024 08:52

SirChenjins · 30/03/2024 08:05

Is it only things said/written on or after the 1st that can be reported, or does it include anything and everything written up until now? Just so I know what I can report.

Since the "victim's" perception is all-important, surely the relevant date is that on which the "victim" sees the message and feels that it constitutes hate.

Presuming that the message is still visible on that date. Including on publicly visible archive sites. If it's there for the "victim", and anyone else, to see on or after April 1st, and that's when the hate is perceived, then that's when the incident occurs.

That would be my argument.

songaboutjam · 30/03/2024 08:30

lonelywater · 29/03/2024 18:44

by about ten past midnight on April the first the Scottish Babylon will be wondering what the hell just hit them. I dont see them having the person (non binary, et at) power to address anything other than responding to a mass outbreak of people giving others funny looks.

Reads like something straight out of a Discworld novel, doesn't it?

ArabellaScott · 30/03/2024 08:29

UtopiaPlanitia · 29/03/2024 21:26

I can’t remember if anyone else has mentioned this but what are the GDPR/Data Security implications and requirements for the non-police station reporting centres?

Are they entering the data into devices with secure log-ins and is the information stored securely in situ or online?

Have they taken steps to ensure there is secure physical access to the information?

Have they set aside confidential spaces to discuss the information/complaints rather than in front of other customers?

Is confidentiality regarding the data gathered a part of staff contracts?

Edited

Nobody knows. I have posted some info on this on the other thread - Hate Crime info and resources. A police service advisor said they had no idea.

ArabellaScott · 30/03/2024 08:27

It's unclear, Sirchenjins. I suppose we.will find out in due course.

SirChenjins · 30/03/2024 08:05

Is it only things said/written on or after the 1st that can be reported, or does it include anything and everything written up until now? Just so I know what I can report.

Rainbowshit · 29/03/2024 21:31

SirChenjins · 27/03/2024 18:49

Could I identify as a transwoman and report my hurt feelz?

I intend to identify as trans and report my hurty feelz.

UltraLiteLife · 29/03/2024 21:31

Will the salmon, sex, and/or mushroom farms be open to act as reporting stations?

Will the Police servers be able to cope with the post-midnight surge? Will they have to pay the Police IT staff a small fortune?

UtopiaPlanitia · 29/03/2024 21:26

I can’t remember if anyone else has mentioned this but what are the GDPR/Data Security implications and requirements for the non-police station reporting centres?

Are they entering the data into devices with secure log-ins and is the information stored securely in situ or online?

Have they taken steps to ensure there is secure physical access to the information?

Have they set aside confidential spaces to discuss the information/complaints rather than in front of other customers?

Is confidentiality regarding the data gathered a part of staff contracts?

UltraLiteLife · 29/03/2024 21:19

by about ten past midnight on April the first the Scottish Babylon will be wondering what the hell just hit them.

Indeed. I wonder if they'll be paying overtime to the specially trained officers? Or do you think they're depending on a mass of volunteer PCSOs to perform these tasks? I'm sure that's a crowdsource task in the making.

lonelywater · 29/03/2024 18:44

by about ten past midnight on April the first the Scottish Babylon will be wondering what the hell just hit them. I dont see them having the person (non binary, et at) power to address anything other than responding to a mass outbreak of people giving others funny looks.

Original poster
WallaceinAnderland · 29/03/2024 18:14

The report does not have to be made by the 'victim'. Anyone can snitch.

In fact Police Scotland positively encourage it by allowing you to report anyone in the whole world anonymously, as many times as you like, all from the comfort of your own armchair.

How they ever thought this was going to work well is beyond me. And how much money have they spent dreaming up this stupid law.

OP posts:
moderate · 28/03/2024 21:17

DuesToTheDirt · 28/03/2024 20:37

I've still got a couple of questions.

So, the crime can be committed outside Scotland, but because the publication is read in Scotland it counts as a crime in Scotland.

What about the "victim"? Do they have to be in Scotland? And does the report have to be made by the person who is the "victim" of the hate crime, or can anyone do it? Can I read something in Scotland, written by someone in England about someone else in England, and make a complaint about it to the Scottish police? Confused

As PP pointed out, you can read something in England, written by someone in England about someone else in England, and make a complaint about it to the Scottish police, because in the course of reading your complaint they will have caused it to be “published” in Scotland.

DuesToTheDirt · 28/03/2024 20:37

I've still got a couple of questions.

So, the crime can be committed outside Scotland, but because the publication is read in Scotland it counts as a crime in Scotland.

What about the "victim"? Do they have to be in Scotland? And does the report have to be made by the person who is the "victim" of the hate crime, or can anyone do it? Can I read something in Scotland, written by someone in England about someone else in England, and make a complaint about it to the Scottish police? Confused

Original poster
WallaceinAnderland · 28/03/2024 00:22

ArrestHer · 27/03/2024 19:58

Hang on a sec. If anything that is read in Scotland is deemed to be published in Scotland. And most of these hate incidents will be the written word. And the words have to be read by the Scottish police themselves to know a thing has happened. Then everything reported will have been published in Scotland. Because a Scottish copper will have read them to note down the wrong think.

do I have that right?

That's what I'm banking on. I'm going to send the tweets anonymously using the form they provide and ask for them to investigate homophobia, criticism of religion and anything else I can shoe horn in. Keep them busy.

I expect all anonymous reports will go straight in the bin but presumably will still show up in data somewhere.

OP posts:
moderate · 27/03/2024 23:50

ArrestHer · 27/03/2024 19:58

Hang on a sec. If anything that is read in Scotland is deemed to be published in Scotland. And most of these hate incidents will be the written word. And the words have to be read by the Scottish police themselves to know a thing has happened. Then everything reported will have been published in Scotland. Because a Scottish copper will have read them to note down the wrong think.

do I have that right?

Good point! So all terven worldwide can help overload the system.

NoWordForFluffy · 27/03/2024 23:43

Keeprejoining · 27/03/2024 23:36

Who is the hate monster

This thing!

Does anyone else not care if a 'hate incident' is recorded against them?
Keeprejoining · 27/03/2024 23:36

Who is the hate monster

AlisonDonut · 27/03/2024 22:40

DerekFaker · 27/03/2024 19:03

They were against the covid vaccine mandates.

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Oh I thought you'd done a survey to gather their views. What you mean is you disagreed with their behaviour, which was to protest against cross border COVID vaccine rules?